Pastor Jeff:
00:01-00:06
Mark has always been a great help and part of this.
Pastor Jeff:
00:06-00:11
And for those of you who don't know, some of you do, but Mark and I go way back.
Pastor Jeff:
00:11-00:13
We actually met in prison, right?
Mark Ort:
00:13-00:13
We did.
Mark Ort:
00:13-00:15
That's not fake news.
Pastor Jeff:
00:15-00:16
That is not fake news.
Pastor Jeff:
00:16-00:19
No, I asked him to shank a guy for a pack of smokes and he did.
Pastor Jeff:
00:21-00:25
And we were, we just had like, we had like kind of a two man gang.
Pastor Jeff:
00:25-00:30
We were pretty tough, But it was prison ministry, right?
Pastor Jeff:
00:30-00:40
But, and that's why I love Mark being up here with me doing this, because we used to go in, right Mark, it'd be like sometimes two or two and a half hours of Q&A day.
Pastor Jeff:
00:40-00:43
And we would answer a lot of these types of questions.
Pastor Jeff:
00:45-00:53
But not only do we have Mark helping us out, but this is the first day of an exciting new chapter in the life of Harvest Bible Chapel.
Pastor Jeff:
00:53-01:00
and I would like you to give a very warm Harvest welcome to Pastor Taylor Brown as he makes his way up.
01:01-01:01
(Applause)
Pastor Jeff:
01:07-01:09
Why don't you guys go ahead and have a seat.
Pastor Jeff:
01:11-01:45
I've got to tell you, though, I was a little dismayed, because I've been telling people that, "Hey, I'm really excited, you know, through this process." I said, "We're getting a new pastor." And people have been like, "Yes! We're getting a new pastor!" And I'm like, "Another pastor." And they're like, "Oh, that's cool too, I guess." But before we get to the congregation submitted questions, I thought this would be a great opportunity to ask Taylor some questions.
Pastor Jeff:
01:46-01:48
So, anybody have any questions for Taylor?
Pastor Jeff:
01:50-01:50
Here's a couple.
Pastor Jeff:
01:51-01:59
We're not gonna embarrass anybody or make him stand up or parade through, but Taylor, why don't you just sort of introduce yourself and tell us about your family?
Taylor Brown:
02:00-02:03
So my wife and I, Kate, we've been married for almost eight years now.
Taylor Brown:
02:03-02:04
We have two kids.
Taylor Brown:
02:05-02:06
Sam is two and a half years old.
Taylor Brown:
02:07-02:09
Thankfully his number hasn't been called yet, so that's pretty good.
Taylor Brown:
02:09-02:13
And we also have Emmy, my daughter, who's the best friend any of you will ever have.
Taylor Brown:
02:13-02:15
She'll love every single person in this room.
Taylor Brown:
02:16-02:17
We're really excited to be here.
Pastor Jeff:
02:18-02:19
Well, we are so excited to have you here.
Pastor Jeff:
02:19-02:30
And for those of you, which is a couple of us, very few of us, that go back quite a ways, Taylor actually interned with us back in 2012, right?
Pastor Jeff:
02:30-02:32
And what have you been doing since then?
Taylor Brown:
02:32-02:39
Over the past seven and a half years, I've been a youth pastor at North Park Church in Wexford, which Jeff told me he's the reason I have that job.
Taylor Brown:
02:39-02:41
I guess he's the reason I have this job.
Taylor Brown:
02:41-02:42
So thank you for my entire career, I guess.
Pastor Jeff:
02:42-02:42
You're welcome.
Taylor Brown:
02:44-02:46
He said his review was so glowing that they had to hire me.
Taylor Brown:
02:47-02:49
That had to be the case, 'cause I had no experience yet.
Pastor Jeff:
02:49-02:53
Yeah, well, they called me about the reference, and let's just say I can be persuasive.
02:54-02:54
(audience laughing)
Pastor Jeff:
02:55-03:06
I said something along the lines of, if you don't hire this man, you are greatly dishonoring the Lord, biggest mistake you'll ever make in the history of your life, something like that.
Pastor Jeff:
03:06-03:11
I don't remember exactly, but yeah, you got a glowing recommendation from me.
Pastor Jeff:
03:12-03:19
And it was also very weird that when he put his application here in the church, my name was on the list of references.
Taylor Brown:
03:20-03:21
He told me not to take him off, so I didn't.
Taylor Brown:
03:21-03:25
I said, "Should I take your name off since I'm giving you the application?" He said, "Nah, don't worry about it." - Yeah,
Pastor Jeff:
03:25-03:29
I called the church line from my cell phone, so I could ask myself about you.
Pastor Jeff:
03:29-03:38
So, why in the world would you accept a position to serve as pastor in this church?
Pastor Jeff:
03:38-03:40
What was it that was a draw for you?
Pastor Jeff:
03:40-03:46
What are you excited about in serving in this capacity with who I believe is the greatest group of people in Pittsburgh?
Taylor Brown:
03:48-03:51
Well, I mean, I've been a part of this church since the beginning almost.
Taylor Brown:
03:51-03:58
I was an intern back in 2012 to 2013, and Jeff gave me a chance when I was really burned out on wanting to do ministry.
Taylor Brown:
03:58-04:02
I had a really bad experience at a church I was interning at, and I was like, you know what, God, I just wanna give up.
Taylor Brown:
04:02-04:03
I don't know if this is for me.
Taylor Brown:
04:04-04:09
And then we had a family friend connect me with Jeff, and we met up at Double Wide Grill, which doesn't exist anymore, does it?
Pastor Jeff:
04:09-04:12
No, somebody called that building the place restaurants go to die.
Taylor Brown:
04:14-04:16
We shared a meal over some greasy lug nuts.
Taylor Brown:
04:17-04:17
Yeah, yeah.
Taylor Brown:
04:18-04:20
And we had a great conversation for about two hours.
Taylor Brown:
04:20-04:27
We just feel like, I don't know, we were just like, you ever had those people you meet, you're like, I feel like we've been friends my entire life, I've only known you for a couple minutes.
Taylor Brown:
04:28-04:30
And Jeff said, yeah, you should be an intern, we'll give you opportunities to preach.
Taylor Brown:
04:30-04:33
I'm like, whoa, whoa, I just met you, and you're giving me opportunities to preach.
Taylor Brown:
04:33-04:36
It was just such a God-ordained meeting.
Taylor Brown:
04:36-04:41
And I've always had Harvest on my heart, even though I haven't been here for over 10 years, I've still come back to preach.
Taylor Brown:
04:41-04:42
I don't know, how many times has it been?
Taylor Brown:
04:43-04:43
You looked it up?
Taylor Brown:
04:43-04:44
I was told 12.
Taylor Brown:
04:44-04:45
12 times, okay.
Taylor Brown:
04:46-04:48
So this congregation's always been on my heart.
Taylor Brown:
04:48-04:52
I've been helping with the preaching class every year, so I'm still somewhat connected, and I just love everybody I know here.
Taylor Brown:
04:52-04:54
I'm excited to get to know everybody else that I don't know.
Pastor Jeff:
04:55-05:12
Yeah, and that was one of the things from our initial meeting that, I don't know, maybe, I guess being in pastoral ministry, you get a sense of people, because you're around people and you counsel people and you get to know a lot of people.
Pastor Jeff:
05:13-05:18
But with Taylor, just immediately, I sensed just a sincerity about him.
Pastor Jeff:
05:21-05:24
I've met a lot of people in ministry - can I just be honest with you?
Pastor Jeff:
05:25-05:26
Is this a safe space?
Pastor Jeff:
05:27-05:30
I've met a lot of people in ministry that I just got the impression were phony.
Pastor Jeff:
05:31-05:36
And they were saying the things that they thought a pastor was supposed to say, or whatever.
Pastor Jeff:
05:36-05:41
I didn't ever get that from Taylor, just from the first conversation we had.
Pastor Jeff:
05:41-05:43
There was just a sincerity about him.
Pastor Jeff:
05:43-05:45
He loves the Lord, he loves God's word, he loves his family.
Pastor Jeff:
05:46-05:50
And I think that was one of the reasons we just kind of connected.
Pastor Jeff:
05:50-05:56
I think we're both just like, no pretense, just tell me how it is and that kind of thing.
Pastor Jeff:
05:57-06:09
So I am just so excited to finally, we talked about hiring an associate back pre-COVID, I remember Mark, back in December of 2019, we were having this conversation.
Pastor Jeff:
06:09-06:12
And then COVID and all that crazy stuff happened.
Pastor Jeff:
06:12-06:17
And now we kind of hesitate it again because of monkey pox.
Pastor Jeff:
06:17-06:19
But we're like, you know what?
Pastor Jeff:
06:21-06:22
We're going to go for it.
Taylor Brown:
06:22-06:23
I wonder what's next?
Pastor Jeff:
06:25-06:25
(laughter)
Pastor Jeff:
06:26-06:29
The return of our Lord, I think, is what's next.
Pastor Jeff:
06:30-06:33
That's the next thing that I'm looking forward to.
Pastor Jeff:
06:34-06:38
returning of the glorious revelation of Jesus Christ.
Mark Ort:
06:38-06:40
Well, if I could just jump in for a split second.
Mark Ort:
06:41-06:50
On behalf of the Elder Board, we are super excited for Taylor and Kate and family to be a part of our church.
Mark Ort:
06:51-07:00
He certainly has a nice resume and all that stuff, but it's the character of this man.
Mark Ort:
07:00-07:08
And so I'm super excited because, you know, there's certain milestones along the way in the life of a church that we hit.
Mark Ort:
07:08-07:12
And if some of you guys, when we moved into this building, remember that?
Mark Ort:
07:13-07:15
It was a big milestone for our church.
Mark Ort:
07:15-07:24
And this is one of those times now with adding Taylor on, it's a huge milestone.
Mark Ort:
07:24-07:31
I'm not putting any pressure on you at all, But this is huge for our church.
Mark Ort:
07:31-07:32
It's going to be great.
Pastor Jeff:
07:32-07:34
Yeah, no pressure at all.
Pastor Jeff:
07:34-07:36
But we thought what a great place to make his debut.
Pastor Jeff:
07:36-07:37
Q&A day, right?
Pastor Jeff:
07:38-07:39
No pressure.
Mark Ort:
07:40-07:40
No pressure.
Pastor Jeff:
07:40-07:41
No pressure at all.
Pastor Jeff:
07:42-07:46
So let's go over the ground rules here, Mark, for the people that are new.
Pastor Jeff:
07:46-07:52
With Q&A day, we answer the question that we think they're asking.
Mark Ort:
07:53-08:01
I will read the question as it was submitted and Jeff will answer it the way that we think that you're asking it.
Pastor Jeff:
08:01-08:10
Right, so we're throwing that out there in case there's somebody that's like, "Well, that's my question, but that's not what I meant." Well, we're going to answer it the best way we understand the question to be asked.
Pastor Jeff:
08:10-08:11
What's the next rule?
Pastor Jeff:
08:13-08:19
Oh yeah, we're going to give the short answer, because honestly, some of these questions could have been a sermon series.
Pastor Jeff:
08:20-08:23
So we're going to give...
Pastor Jeff:
08:23-08:25
And they're excellent questions, but...
Taylor Brown:
08:25-08:26
You are known for brevity too.
Pastor Jeff:
08:26-08:26
What's that?
Taylor Brown:
08:27-08:27
You are known for brevity.
Pastor Jeff:
08:27-08:29
I'm known for brevity, right.
Pastor Jeff:
08:29-08:31
That's what they say about me around here.
Pastor Jeff:
08:32-08:35
Please, please longer sermons, Pastor John.
Pastor Jeff:
08:35-08:35
When I left,
Taylor Brown:
08:35-08:37
your sermons were 55 minutes.
Taylor Brown:
08:37-08:38
They're shorter than that now though.
Taylor Brown:
08:39-08:39
Well, back then
Pastor Jeff:
08:39-08:40
I was getting paid by the word.
Pastor Jeff:
08:45-08:48
And I didn't print out my answers, so I have them on my phone here somewhere.
Pastor Jeff:
08:50-08:51
Are there any other rules?
Pastor Jeff:
08:51-08:52
It's like, don't feed them after midnight.
Pastor Jeff:
08:53-08:55
I will blog on our website.
Pastor Jeff:
08:55-08:56
Oh, Leo, that's right.
Pastor Jeff:
08:56-09:00
Taylor will blog on our website the questions that we don't cover.
Pastor Jeff:
09:01-09:03
Between Taylor and I, we'll make sure that that gets covered, right?
Pastor Jeff:
09:04-09:05
So the short answers.
Pastor Jeff:
09:06-09:08
All right, so are we gonna set the timer?
Pastor Jeff:
09:08-09:09
How much time do we want?
Mark Ort:
09:10-09:11
What are we, 40 minutes? - An hour.
Pastor Jeff:
09:12-09:15
From a group that was just complaining about the length of my sermons.
Pastor Jeff:
09:17-09:18
You're getting five minutes.
Pastor Jeff:
09:20-09:22
I'm kidding, I'm kidding.
Pastor Jeff:
09:22-09:23
How long do we want?
Pastor Jeff:
09:24-09:25
>> We usually go
Mark Ort:
09:25-09:25
about 40 minutes.
Pastor Jeff:
09:26-09:26
>> You want to say 40?
Pastor Jeff:
09:28-09:28
Any objections?
Pastor Jeff:
09:30-09:30
All in favor?
Pastor Jeff:
09:31-09:32
We don't vote here.
Pastor Jeff:
09:34-09:34
[ Laughter ]
Pastor Jeff:
09:35-09:37
Sorry, sorry, sorry.
Pastor Jeff:
09:38-09:42
I don't work the whole hour, Darla.
Pastor Jeff:
09:42-09:45
I only work about 55 minutes apparently.
Pastor Jeff:
09:46-09:47
All right.
Pastor Jeff:
09:47-09:51
We're going to do 40 minutes, but I'm not starting the timer until Mark reads the first question like a game
Mark Ort:
09:51-09:52
show.
Mark Ort:
09:52-09:56
You guys ready? All right, buckle up, here we go, we got a lot of questions.
Mark Ort:
09:58-10:19
My question is how as followers of Christ are we to equip ourselves and our children, besides prayer, to stand up against evil ideology, particularly LGBTQ agenda in our schools and the in-your-face push throughout media? How do we teach our kids to respond to teachers and peers when confronted with these movements?
Pastor Jeff:
10:20-10:22
You know that that is a really good question.
Pastor Jeff:
10:22-10:24
It's really relevant for our time. So Taylor.
Pastor Jeff:
10:28-10:28
I appreciate
Taylor Brown:
10:28-10:30
the first softball question of the whole group.
Taylor Brown:
10:31-10:33
Definitely easiest question. Just thought we start out with an easy one.
Taylor Brown:
10:33-10:37
I appreciate that. Well this is something that we're all connected to in some way.
Taylor Brown:
10:37-10:41
We all have someone in our lives who identifies as LGBTQ.
Taylor Brown:
10:42-10:45
Maybe it's a relative. Maybe it's a friend, coworker, neighbor.
Taylor Brown:
10:46-10:48
So this affects every single one of us.
Taylor Brown:
10:48-10:50
And we're at the stage in our culture where it's everywhere.
Taylor Brown:
10:51-10:56
I mean, episode of Blue's Clues had a drag queen on it.
Taylor Brown:
10:56-10:59
The newest Buzz Lightyear movie has a lesbian marriage on display.
Taylor Brown:
10:59-11:01
It's really hard to avoid these things.
Taylor Brown:
11:02-11:06
And I've encountered many parents who wanna shield their kids completely from this.
Taylor Brown:
11:06-11:08
That's not really possible.
Taylor Brown:
11:08-11:10
They're gonna learn about this from somewhere.
Taylor Brown:
11:11-11:14
And it should be you, and it should be from the church.
Taylor Brown:
11:14-11:15
That's really, really important.
Taylor Brown:
11:16-11:19
The most important thing you can do with your kids growing up is teaching them who they are.
Taylor Brown:
11:20-11:26
Who they are in Christ, who God created them to be, their gender was established by God and God alone.
Taylor Brown:
11:26-11:41
And they can't change that and say, "I don't really feel like this." I think sometimes there's the extremes of, "Oh, well, you can be anything you want to be." And also, "Oh, a man has to love hunting, has to love trucks, a girl has to love princesses and dresses." No, both those things are unhelpful.
Taylor Brown:
11:41-11:48
As parents, we should model what a godly man looks like and what a godly woman looks like as well.
Taylor Brown:
11:48-11:49
That's really, really important.
Taylor Brown:
11:50-11:54
We also want to make sure our kids aren't just lovers of the truth, but givers of grace as well.
Taylor Brown:
11:55-11:57
The LGBT community isn't our enemy.
Taylor Brown:
11:58-12:01
We're trying to love and serve them.
Taylor Brown:
12:01-12:04
So helping our kids understand, we need to show them grace.
Taylor Brown:
12:04-12:05
We need to show them love.
Taylor Brown:
12:05-12:09
Yes, speak the truth, but also show them the love and grace of Jesus Christ.
Taylor Brown:
12:09-12:09
Right,
Pastor Jeff:
12:09-12:16
and I think with that, I'm sorry, I don't know why it keeps, must not have it in the right position here.
Pastor Jeff:
12:17-12:20
I think we need to teach them very early on what does the Bible say?
Pastor Jeff:
12:20-12:22
Establishing the authority of God's Word.
Pastor Jeff:
12:22-12:24
Because that's where we get our answers with all those things you're talking about.
Pastor Jeff:
12:24-12:29
Our identity, our mission, you know, issues regarding sexuality.
Pastor Jeff:
12:29-12:36
We should be, from early on, teaching our kids, look, you know what, God's Word is our authority.
Pastor Jeff:
12:36-12:42
And this is where we need to go when these questions come up, well, you know, they were...
Pastor Jeff:
12:42-12:58
I saw the drag queen on "Blues Clues" or whatever, and you're like, well, it gives you an opportunity to talk to your, you know, teenager, first of all, about what the Bible says about sexuality, and also why your teenager shouldn't be watching "Blues Clues." And Paul
Mark Ort:
12:58-13:00
says this in 2 Timothy also.
Mark Ort:
13:00-13:09
He says, "From childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith, which is in Christ Jesus.
Mark Ort:
13:09-13:27
And so here we even see it in the New Testament where Paul's telling Timothy, "Hey, you learned this stuff when you were a kid." And we should be teaching our kids not only the biblical truth, of course, but critical thinking skills that go along with that.
Mark Ort:
13:28-13:30
This isn't just an encyclopedia here.
Mark Ort:
13:30-13:33
This is something that tells you how God wants you to live.
Mark Ort:
13:33-13:43
And so we need to teach them, I think, critical thinking skills and modeling the biblical behavior, and our kids will catch that.
Mark Ort:
13:43-13:49
And they will be able to identify that these things, these aren't right in God's eyes.
Pastor Jeff:
13:50-14:00
Yeah, Cade's brought that stuff home from school where he was going, he goes, "Dad, somebody at school said, you know, X, Y, Z, "and I just said, well, what does the Bible say about that?
Pastor Jeff:
14:00-14:06
"What do you think God thinks about that?" And it lets us go into great discussion.
Mark Ort:
14:07-14:08
Yeah, that's a great point, Jeff.
Mark Ort:
14:08-14:12
Our kids should be asking all the time, well, what does the Bible say about that?
Mark Ort:
14:13-14:14
Not only our kids, we should be asking that question.
Mark Ort:
14:15-14:15
Yeah.
Mark Ort:
14:16-14:17
Ready for the second one?
Mark Ort:
14:17-14:17
Yeah, let's go.
Mark Ort:
14:18-14:18
We promised remedy.
Mark Ort:
14:19-14:24
Why should I pray for this world if the Bible says that the world is going to get worse?
Pastor Jeff:
14:24-14:28
Why should I pray for this world if the Bible says that the world is going to get worse?
Pastor Jeff:
14:28-14:30
That is a really good question.
Pastor Jeff:
14:30-14:30
Taylor.
Taylor Brown:
14:32-14:32
Again, wow.
Pastor Jeff:
14:35-14:39
Well, consider this part of the job interview.
14:40-14:40
(laughing)
Taylor Brown:
14:41-14:44
Well, in the New Testament, the word cosmos or world can refer to three different things.
Taylor Brown:
14:44-14:51
You're referring to this physical planet, other human beings, as well as this present evil system that's run by Satan.
Taylor Brown:
14:51-15:01
So God calls us to oppose this present evil system and its ideologies that it teaches that go against God's word, but he also calls us to love and pray for other human beings.
Taylor Brown:
15:01-15:03
He called us to take care of His creation.
Taylor Brown:
15:03-15:05
So in one way, we're called to hate the world.
Taylor Brown:
15:06-15:08
Another way, we're called to love the world at the same time.
Pastor Jeff:
15:08-15:13
Right, and you know, there's nothing new under the sun, right, we just covered it in Ecclesiastes.
Pastor Jeff:
15:14-15:20
But the world, how long has it been that the world's been getting worse, like since the fall?
Pastor Jeff:
15:21-15:24
Right, and you see that in every chapter of history.
Pastor Jeff:
15:24-15:25
I mean, look at the book of Daniel.
Pastor Jeff:
15:27-15:33
Daniel was a man of prayer, and things were getting worse and worse and worse in His day too.
Pastor Jeff:
15:33-15:40
You know, God is still saving people despite how bad the world's getting, right?
Pastor Jeff:
15:40-15:44
And we are to pray for the second coming of Jesus.
Pastor Jeff:
15:44-15:45
Amen. Come quickly, Lord Jesus.
Pastor Jeff:
15:46-15:49
And we're to pray for God's purposes in evangelism.
Pastor Jeff:
15:49-15:54
But God uses times like this to glorify Himself through redeeming people.
Pastor Jeff:
15:55-15:58
So to say, "Well, the world's getting too bad.
Pastor Jeff:
15:58-16:01
beyond prayer, that's not a good
Taylor Brown:
16:01-16:02
place to be.
Taylor Brown:
16:02-16:03
It could always be worse, too.
Taylor Brown:
16:04-16:05
Yeah, yeah.
Taylor Brown:
16:05-16:08
You see like a movie like "Mad Max Fury Road," it's like, "Okay, it could be worse.
Taylor Brown:
16:08-16:18
It could be like a post-apocalyptic wasteland." So God has his restraining hand of common grace on this world and he can remove it whenever he wants to, but it could be much worse.
Taylor Brown:
16:18-16:18
Right.
Pastor Jeff:
16:18-16:19
Have you read Revelation?
Pastor Jeff:
16:19-16:21
Like, it is going to get much worse, right?
Taylor Brown:
16:24-16:25
Ready
Mark Ort:
16:25-16:25
to move on?
Mark Ort:
16:25-16:25
Yeah.
Mark Ort:
16:27-16:31
There's a lot of dialogue in our country about rights.
Mark Ort:
16:31-16:34
What rights are actually given to us by God?
Taylor Brown:
16:35-16:35
Jeff?
16:36-16:37
(audience laughing)
Pastor Jeff:
16:40-16:43
You know, he's a quick learner.
Taylor Brown:
16:44-16:45
I saw where that was going.
Pastor Jeff:
16:47-16:49
You're right, you're right, Taylor.
Pastor Jeff:
16:49-16:56
And I think, you know, when I saw this question, I thought, I bet you Mark has some great thoughts about that, Mark?
Pastor Jeff:
16:56-16:57
Well, you know what? The
Mark Ort:
16:57-16:59
Bible tells us what kind of rights we have.
Mark Ort:
17:00-17:16
And the first place that I went to was in the book of John, in chapter 1, verse 12, it says, "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name."
17:16-17:17
Right.
Pastor Jeff:
17:17-17:27
And we do talk about my rights and standing up for my rights, But biblically, and this is what the Bible says, and you're about the Bible, right?
Pastor Jeff:
17:27-17:28
The Bible's our middle name.
Pastor Jeff:
17:29-17:31
We are called slaves of Jesus Christ.
Pastor Jeff:
17:31-17:42
And I'm not going to bore you with the whole history lesson behind that, but over time, in order to soften the blow of what the Greek word says, it's been re-translated servant.
Pastor Jeff:
17:42-17:44
Because that sounds a little better.
Pastor Jeff:
17:44-17:45
Like, you know, I serve.
Pastor Jeff:
17:45-17:47
I serve in the kids' ministry and I serve.
Pastor Jeff:
17:48-17:58
But literally, the word in the Greek is, "You're a slave of Jesus Christ." So when you talk about, "What are my rights?" My rights are the same rights that a slave would have.
Pastor Jeff:
17:58-18:03
I am a slave, biblically, of Jesus Christ, meaning He establishes my rights.
Pastor Jeff:
18:04-18:06
He tells me what I'm allowed to do.
Pastor Jeff:
18:06-18:10
He sets my values and my standards and my expectations.
Pastor Jeff:
18:11-18:18
So as Christians, we should not be people that are constantly waving our flags and we're not defending our rights.
Pastor Jeff:
18:21-18:22
I should get what's coming to me!
Pastor Jeff:
18:23-18:25
You just don't see that biblically.
Mark Ort:
18:29-18:30
Alright, number four.
Mark Ort:
18:32-18:38
"In light of many current events, shortages, and inflation, I feel the need to hoard food and necessities.
Mark Ort:
18:39-18:42
Is it wrong to have an excess of these items in stock?
Mark Ort:
18:42-18:45
Does that show a lack of faith in God's
18:45-18:47
provision?"
Pastor Jeff:
18:47-18:49
Does it show lack of faith? That's a hard issue.
Pastor Jeff:
18:49-18:50
And I can't answer that.
Pastor Jeff:
18:50-19:01
But I can answer regarding the principle of foreseeing the possibility of shortage ahead and making provision for that.
Pastor Jeff:
19:01-19:03
Does the Bible talk about that at all?
Pastor Jeff:
19:04-19:06
Well, yeah. Remember Joseph?
Pastor Jeff:
19:08-19:09
I don't have my notes up.
Pastor Jeff:
19:09-19:10
Was it Genesis 41?
Pastor Jeff:
19:11-19:12
What's that?
Pastor Jeff:
19:13-19:14
It's somewhere around there.
Pastor Jeff:
19:15-19:26
I think it's somewhere around Genesis 41, where the Lord revealed to him that there was going to be an upcoming famine, so he planned ahead through storing.
Pastor Jeff:
19:27-19:36
And also Proverbs talks about the ant and the diligence of the ant, making sure to do the hard work to store for preparation for the winter.
Pastor Jeff:
19:37-19:40
So lack of faith, that's a hard issue.
Pastor Jeff:
19:41-19:48
But the actual act of preparing for possible shortage, I don't see that as sinful in and of itself as an act.
Pastor Jeff:
19:48-20:04
We do, because of all the, you know, you talk about empty store shelves and supply chain and blah, blah, blah, and we're like, hey, you know what, we have two kids that need us to provide for them, so we've been working on making sure that our family's taken care of.
Pastor Jeff:
20:04-20:05
Yeah,
Mark Ort:
20:05-20:09
Walmart near us has not had peanut butter for like a month, and that's a bummer.
Mark Ort:
20:09-20:10
That is, yeah, that is a bummer.
Mark Ort:
20:10-20:11
I love peanut butter.
Mark Ort:
20:11-20:17
But seriously, Jeff, when you started that answer, you talked about the attitude.
Mark Ort:
20:17-20:32
And think about this, though. If you have extra food on hand, and there is a major event, what kind of witness are you going to be to your neighbors if you're like, "Hey, I have some food for you"?
Mark Ort:
20:32-20:36
You know what I'm saying? It could be a great witness.
Mark Ort:
20:36-20:37
Yeah, absolutely. That's a good point.
Mark Ort:
20:38-20:39
Even the
Taylor Brown:
20:39-20:42
formula shortage right now, it's a great opportunity to bless moms in that way.
Taylor Brown:
20:42-20:43
Right on.
Taylor Brown:
20:43-20:45
To bless people with toilet paper comes to that again.
Taylor Brown:
20:46-20:47
Hopefully it doesn't.
Mark Ort:
20:47-20:48
Right, that's right.
Mark Ort:
20:50-20:52
Alright, number five.
Mark Ort:
20:52-20:53
What is a woman?
Pastor Jeff:
21:00-21:02
I am a pastor, not a biologist.
Pastor Jeff:
21:07-21:07
No idea.
Pastor Jeff:
21:09-21:09
Next.
Mark Ort:
21:10-21:11
Number six.
Mark Ort:
21:13-21:16
No, I have some answers to that.
Mark Ort:
21:16-21:16
Do you know?
Mark Ort:
21:18-21:20
I can make a stab at it.
Taylor Brown:
21:21-21:27
We were preparing for this and Jeff said, "I'm not going to answer it." I said, "Oh, really? You're joking, right? No, I'm not going to answer it. Okay."
Mark Ort:
21:28-21:30
Well, I studied this out a little bit and...
Mark Ort:
21:34-21:34
A little bit.
Mark Ort:
21:35-21:41
In the book of Genesis, there are certain things that the Scripture assumes that you know.
Mark Ort:
21:43-21:50
We haven't had to ask this question for thousands of years, until just recently.
Mark Ort:
21:52-22:00
But if you go into Genesis, and look at - I think to define a woman, we have to define what a man is.
Mark Ort:
22:01-22:08
And if you look in the book of Genesis, when Adam was created out of, what was he created out of?
Mark Ort:
22:09-22:09
Dust.
Mark Ort:
22:11-22:17
And so, God named him Adam, which actually means man. He's the first man.
Mark Ort:
22:18-22:27
And there actually is, in that word, and I'm not a Hebrew scholar, so you can do a little bit of research on this.
Mark Ort:
22:28-22:35
The word means red or ruddy, which may have described the soil that he was formed from.
Mark Ort:
22:36-22:39
You've seen red soil and certain different colors of soil.
Mark Ort:
22:40-22:41
Around here it's brown.
Mark Ort:
22:42-22:43
I used to live in a place where it was black.
Mark Ort:
22:44-22:45
But there are places that have red soil.
Mark Ort:
22:46-22:49
And that could have been the situation, and that's why he named him Adam.
Mark Ort:
22:51-22:56
But here's the story about when Adam was created.
Mark Ort:
22:57-23:12
He, when he got up out of the dust, he looked, well, I wasn't there, but when he saw the dust and he was named from that, he's looking at the dust and you can imagine what he's thinking.
Mark Ort:
23:13-23:16
Okay, I'm named that, but I'm not that.
Mark Ort:
23:17-23:21
I was from that, but I'm not that now.
Mark Ort:
23:21-23:25
I'm distinct from the dust, if you can picture the scene.
Mark Ort:
23:25-23:32
Okay, so later on when Eve is created, how was Eve created?
Mark Ort:
23:35-23:36
From Adam's side.
Mark Ort:
23:36-23:44
And so it says in the scripture that she was named woman because she was taken from man.
Mark Ort:
23:44-23:50
And so her name came about the same way that Adam's name came about.
Mark Ort:
23:50-23:53
Okay, I'm part of that, but I'm not that.
Mark Ort:
23:54-23:55
I'm distinct.
Mark Ort:
23:55-23:59
And that's what the word "woman" means.
Mark Ort:
23:59-24:02
I was part of that, but I'm not that.
Mark Ort:
24:02-24:04
I'm totally distinct from that.
Mark Ort:
24:04-24:14
And so Adam recognized that, and Eve recognized that, and all these people, like all their descendants, recognized that there was a distinction between them.
Mark Ort:
24:15-24:20
And the rest of the Bible, it doesn't have to explain what a woman is.
Mark Ort:
24:21-24:24
And like I said, until recently, we've entered in that discussion.
Mark Ort:
24:24-24:25
I think of Taylor
Pastor Jeff:
24:25-24:28
talking to some of his friends outside the church later today.
Pastor Jeff:
24:29-24:36
Like, "How'd your first day go?" Well, we spent most of the time talking about what a woman is because somebody from the congregation didn't know.
Pastor Jeff:
24:38-24:39
And here's
Mark Ort:
24:39-24:40
the thing about that, Jeff.
Mark Ort:
24:42-24:43
I think this question-- - Everybody knows what a woman is.
Pastor Jeff:
24:43-24:47
Yeah, I think this question might have been submitted tongue in cheek.
Pastor Jeff:
24:47-24:48
That's my guess.
Pastor Jeff:
24:48-24:48
It's
Mark Ort:
24:48-24:52
possible, but people know.
Mark Ort:
24:53-25:01
And when we hear it on the radio and the podcast and stuff like that, the people that are asking the question or the people that can't answer it, the people that can't answer it, they know.
Mark Ort:
25:01-25:02
They know what it is.
Mark Ort:
25:03-25:04
All right, let's move on.
Mark Ort:
25:07-25:11
Speaking of women, what are your thoughts about churches with women pastors?
Mark Ort:
25:12-25:14
What does the Bible say about this?
Mark Ort:
25:17-25:17
Paul
Pastor Jeff:
25:17-25:17
told
Mark Ort:
25:17-25:19
Timothy, can we put that verse up
Pastor Jeff:
25:19-25:19
there, please?
Pastor Jeff:
25:21-25:22
Did I include... yeah, there we go.
Pastor Jeff:
25:23-25:28
1 Timothy 2 says, "I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man.
Pastor Jeff:
25:30-25:34
Rather, she is to remain quiet." Now, stop right there.
Pastor Jeff:
25:34-25:41
Because I've shared this with so many people, and they're like, "You've got to understand, Jeff, that the reason Paul said that was because of the culture of the day.
Pastor Jeff:
25:41-25:49
You've got to understand, in the culture that Timothy was in, and it was all about the culture." Look at Paul's reasoning.
Pastor Jeff:
25:50-25:52
His reasoning has nothing to do with the culture.
Pastor Jeff:
25:53-26:01
And look, if you're pro-woman pastor, whatever, you at least have to acknowledge Paul's reasoning.
Pastor Jeff:
26:02-26:04
His reasoning is theological.
Pastor Jeff:
26:05-26:21
"Why don't you allow women to have authority over men, Paul?" He says, "For Adam was formed first, then Eve." So it has something to do with the creation order, and it has something to do with what happened in the fall.
Pastor Jeff:
26:21-26:25
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.
Pastor Jeff:
26:26-26:38
So at Harvest Bible Chapel, there are women serving in every capacity of ministry, except this one, except in a position where she would have authority over a man.
Pastor Jeff:
26:38-26:43
And it's not anti-woman, it's not male chauvinist, it's not patriarchal.
Pastor Jeff:
26:44-26:47
Listen, my favorite person on the planet is a woman.
Pastor Jeff:
26:49-26:51
I know what a woman is, all right?
Pastor Jeff:
26:51-26:56
And there is one in particular that I love more than anything else on this planet.
Pastor Jeff:
26:57-26:59
So it is not an anti-woman thing.
Pastor Jeff:
26:59-27:00
It is a, what does the Bible say?
Pastor Jeff:
27:01-27:11
And when I read this, I'm like, okay, God gave a theological reason, and even if I don't fully understand that, He is God and I am not.
Pastor Jeff:
27:12-27:18
So is it okay if God says some things that I'm like, well, even if I don't grasp that, I'm just gonna do what he says.
Pastor Jeff:
27:18-27:18
Is that okay?
Pastor Jeff:
27:20-27:21
I think it is.
Mark Ort:
27:24-27:24
Thanks for that, Jeff.
Mark Ort:
27:25-27:27
All right, number seven.
Mark Ort:
27:28-27:30
People at work say Christians can swear.
Mark Ort:
27:31-27:32
Can they
Taylor Brown:
27:32-27:33
swear to be relevant?
Taylor Brown:
27:36-27:38
I've never heard of someone coming to Christ 'cause a Christian swore around them.
Taylor Brown:
27:40-27:40
Yeah.
Taylor Brown:
27:40-27:42
Maybe that's somebody's testimony, I've never heard it.
Pastor Jeff:
27:42-27:43
I understand that.
Pastor Jeff:
27:43-27:45
I understand this question.
Pastor Jeff:
27:45-27:48
Somebody's saying like, you know, my co-workers swear.
Pastor Jeff:
27:48-27:52
So if I swear, they're going to be like, "Oh, you know what?
Pastor Jeff:
27:52-27:52
He's cool.
Pastor Jeff:
27:52-27:56
I can talk to him." And that's going to sort of open the door.
Pastor Jeff:
27:57-27:58
But I'm with Taylor.
Pastor Jeff:
27:58-28:03
I've never heard of somebody that's like, "How did you come to know the Lord?" It's like, "Well, you know what?
Pastor Jeff:
28:04-28:05
I had this potty-mouthed co-worker.
Pastor Jeff:
28:07-28:10
And you know, he let out a string of obscenities.
Pastor Jeff:
28:11-28:17
And once I talked to him about that, I found out he was a Christian, and it was like sackcloth and ashes, baby!
Pastor Jeff:
28:20-28:26
I don't see that as a great evangelism tool.
Pastor Jeff:
28:27-28:32
But what I do see, biblically, is an exhortation to do the opposite.
Pastor Jeff:
28:32-28:33
Like what did Paul say?
Pastor Jeff:
28:33-28:34
Ephesians 5, is it?
Pastor Jeff:
28:36-28:42
Let there be no filthiness, nor foolish talk, nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving.
Pastor Jeff:
28:44-28:48
I think the appeal of Christians is not to be just like the world.
Pastor Jeff:
28:49-28:56
I think the appeal is that we've been transformed so we are different than the world.
Pastor Jeff:
28:56-28:58
I think that's the appeal of evangelism.
Pastor Jeff:
28:58-29:03
See, people didn't flock to Jesus because He acted just like everybody.
Pastor Jeff:
29:04-29:07
They flocked to Jesus because they saw the holiness of God in Him.
Pastor Jeff:
29:08-29:17
and as Christ has manifested through us, that should be the appeal, not, you know, who would make a sailor blush with their language?
Taylor Brown:
29:18-29:25
You know, to jump back a chapter in Ephesians, I always run everything, I try to run everything I say by this verse and I often fail, but I'm trying to do better.
Taylor Brown:
29:25-29:40
In Ephesians 4.29, Paul says, "Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as good for building up as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear." So not only should I be watching what I say, but who I say it to and when I say it.
Taylor Brown:
29:40-29:42
Husbands take note of that especially.
Taylor Brown:
29:42-29:45
You can say the right thing at the totally wrong time.
Taylor Brown:
29:46-29:47
That's true with other people too.
Taylor Brown:
29:48-29:50
Not only is this right to say, it's just the right time for it.
Taylor Brown:
29:50-29:51
It's just the right time to say it.
Taylor Brown:
29:52-29:53
And do we have
Mark Ort:
29:53-29:57
to really look to our coworkers to determine our character or manner of speech?
Mark Ort:
29:58-29:59
We do not.
Mark Ort:
29:59-30:04
We have the Word of God, and we should be able to figure out how we should be speaking.
Mark Ort:
30:07-30:11
Okay, the next question is a long one.
Mark Ort:
30:12-30:15
Psalms are psalmist praises and often supplications too.
Mark Ort:
30:16-30:18
They are not necessarily God's promises.
Mark Ort:
30:19-30:22
How shall we then treat those supplications?
Mark Ort:
30:22-30:31
For example, in Psalm 623, "Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life." Is this true for us?
Mark Ort:
30:32-30:51
For example, in Psalm 90, verse 15, "Make us glad for as many days as you have afflicted us, "for as many years as we have seen trouble." Does this prayer being included in the Bible mean approval of the supplication by God?
Mark Ort:
30:52-30:54
Can we make the same supplication?
Pastor Jeff:
30:56-31:02
Yes, and I think this is ultimately, This is a question of inspiration, right?
Pastor Jeff:
31:03-31:04
And the place of the Psalms.
Pastor Jeff:
31:04-31:18
Psalms are unique though, because where the Bible is written sort of from God's perspective to man, Psalms are inspired, but they're all written from man speaking to God, so to speak.
Pastor Jeff:
31:18-31:22
They're prayers and they're songs, so they're directed towards God.
Pastor Jeff:
31:22-31:25
But, they're still inspired.
Pastor Jeff:
31:26-31:30
Because so much prophecy comes from Psalms.
Pastor Jeff:
31:30-31:32
Look at Psalm 2, look at Psalm 22.
Pastor Jeff:
31:33-31:35
But one of the biggest ones, what is it?
Pastor Jeff:
31:35-31:40
Psalm 16 talks about the resurrection of the Messiah.
Pastor Jeff:
31:40-31:52
So there's a lot of deep, not only doctrine, but Christ-specific prophecy that comes from the Psalms that tell us that they are divinely inspired.
Pastor Jeff:
31:52-31:55
So yeah, all of these principles, absolutely.
Pastor Jeff:
31:56-31:59
Should we be praying the Psalms and praying through the Psalms?
Pastor Jeff:
31:59-32:00
Oh, for sure.
Pastor Jeff:
32:00-32:04
We should be taking the principles from the Psalms and incorporating them into our prayer life.
Pastor Jeff:
32:05-32:12
But none of these things are like, obviously like, just like blank checks that God wrote.
Pastor Jeff:
32:12-32:16
"Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life." Is that ultimately going to be true?
Pastor Jeff:
32:16-32:16
Yes.
Pastor Jeff:
32:17-32:21
That doesn't mean that if I pray that I'm guaranteed to not have a bad day until I get to heaven.
Pastor Jeff:
32:22-32:29
So, ultimately, these are true things, but they are inspired
32:29-32:30
and
Taylor Brown:
32:30-32:31
profitable.
Taylor Brown:
32:33-32:33
What do you guys think?
Taylor Brown:
32:36-32:39
Well, I think Psalms are really important to teach us how to pray, especially.
Taylor Brown:
32:39-32:42
And sometimes when you don't know what to pray - has it ever happened to anybody else besides me?
Taylor Brown:
32:42-32:44
You're just like, "I don't know what to pray." Go to the Psalms.
Taylor Brown:
32:44-32:48
Find one that expresses how you're feeling, and that could be your prayer to God.
Mark Ort:
32:50-33:04
In that verse in particular, "Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me." Even if it doesn't seem like it, if we looked hard enough, we would see God's mercy and goodness following us.
Mark Ort:
33:04-33:05
Right.
Mark Ort:
33:07-33:08
All right, let's move on to the next one.
Mark Ort:
33:09-33:13
If Jesus was a Galilean Jew, why aren't we?
Pastor Jeff:
33:13-33:34
You know, I had to ask for clarification for this question, And the question primarily boils down to, as I understood the clarification, is if Jesus was an obedient Jew, like according to Mosaic law and such, why don't we have to subject ourselves to Mosaic law?
Pastor Jeff:
33:34-33:41
And that is a really huge question that again we'll try to answer succinctly.
Pastor Jeff:
33:42-33:48
But the Old Testament law was given to Israel for a certain period of history.
Pastor Jeff:
33:49-33:53
And the purpose of the law was a couple of things.
Pastor Jeff:
33:53-33:55
It was to show us that we're all sinners.
Pastor Jeff:
33:56-34:01
And to ultimately bring us our need for God's grace.
Pastor Jeff:
34:01-34:06
And it also pointed to the Messiah through the sacrificial system.
Pastor Jeff:
34:06-34:08
You know, the sacrifices.
Pastor Jeff:
34:08-34:11
The high priest, the temple, the Holy of Holies - all of that.
Pastor Jeff:
34:11-34:18
So the Old Testament law, God instituted for a season and for the nation of Israel.
Pastor Jeff:
34:19-34:22
But Christ came to fulfill all of that, right?
Pastor Jeff:
34:22-34:30
So you know, in Hebrews it says that the old covenant is obsolete because God established a new covenant.
Pastor Jeff:
34:30-34:35
And even in the old covenant, God promised that He was going to establish a new one, right?
Pastor Jeff:
34:35-34:48
In Jeremiah 31, He says, "I'm going to establish a new covenant." And that New Covenant was ultimately set into motion for the death of Jesus Christ.
Pastor Jeff:
34:48-34:49
He established the New Covenant.
Pastor Jeff:
34:50-34:52
So we don't live according to Old Testament law.
Pastor Jeff:
34:53-34:59
We live under the covenant of His grace through the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit which wasn't part of
34:59-35:01
the
Mark Ort:
35:01-35:03
believer's life under the Old Testament.
Mark Ort:
35:04-35:06
Alright, sounds good Jeff. Thank you.
Mark Ort:
35:07-35:18
spirits outside of angels and demons on on earth is there any scripture that would lead us to believe that people once they die would be a spirit on earth
Pastor Jeff:
35:19-35:33
no Taylor you want to add anything to that no there and that's a yes or no question is very scripture that would have us believe that people die and they're still hovering around there's nothing scripturally it says that
35:33-35:34
ghost
Taylor Brown:
35:34-35:36
I thought "This B
Pastor Jeff:
36:04-36:12
that wants to think, "Grandma's with me right now." And biblically, she's really not, right?
Pastor Jeff:
36:13-36:14
We die, we go somewhere.
Pastor Jeff:
36:14-36:17
And the Bible makes that clear.
Pastor Jeff:
36:17-36:26
I don't believe, you know, some people say, "Well, when a cardinal visits you, "that's the spirit of your deceased loved one "coming to you as a cardinal," or whatever.
Pastor Jeff:
36:26-36:29
I just, look, it's just not biblical,
Taylor Brown:
36:30-36:30
right?
Taylor Brown:
36:31-36:35
And if the loved one is a follower of Christ, if we know there will be a reunion someday.
Taylor Brown:
36:35-36:36
Right. - We'll see them again.
Pastor Jeff:
36:37-36:38
That's right, yeah, absolutely.
Pastor Jeff:
36:38-36:44
So, got something better than showing up as a bird on my porch.
Pastor Jeff:
36:45-36:48
We'll get to be with them eternally in the place that Jesus is preparing.
Pastor Jeff:
36:49-36:53
But yeah, there's no scripture that says people are hanging out here.
Mark Ort:
36:54-36:55
All right, thank you.
Mark Ort:
36:56-37:01
Next question, are we missing something when it comes to the Sabbath and the value of rest?
Mark Ort:
37:02-37:10
Jesus addresses the Pharisees' legalistic approach to the Sabbath, and much of the Old Testament has been fulfilled through the cross.
Mark Ort:
37:11-37:16
But this is the only one of 10 commandments that isn't expected to be followed still.
Pastor Jeff:
37:18-37:18
Right.
Pastor Jeff:
37:21-37:25
Sabbath trips people up because it was part of the Old Testament law.
Pastor Jeff:
37:26-37:29
Yes, and we just talked about the purpose of the law for the season for Israel.
Pastor Jeff:
37:30-37:31
Now we live under the new covenant.
Pastor Jeff:
37:31-38:00
Gentiles we were never really under the law because of who we are and where we live in history but Hebrews chapter 4 actually talks a lot about how we live in the Sabbath rest of Jesus Christ but Taylor I know you had some great thoughts we were talking about this stuff through the week and I'd like you to share some of the stuff you were talking about with me regarding the Sabbath. Well the interesting thing is of all the Ten Commandments there's only one that's not reinstated as binding upon us as
Taylor Brown:
38:00-38:27
Christians to follow and obey, not to be saved, but since we are saved we want to obey God's commands, and that's keeping the Sabbath. Now I don't think that means that we should just totally ignore it or brush over it. God took a day of rest in creation, not because he needed it, but to show us how life works best. We aren't meant to be the energizer bunny just keep going and going and going. We need rest. And Jesus says that Sabbath was made for man, not man for Sabbath.
Taylor Brown:
38:27-38:31
I remember at Geneva, we went to college, we weren't allowed to vacuum or do our laundry on Sunday.
Taylor Brown:
38:32-38:37
And they would even hire non-Christians to work in the cafeteria because they don't want Christians to break the law.
Taylor Brown:
38:37-38:41
Oh, that's-- I was like, OK, well, I don't know if I want to pay a Christian to break God's commands for me.
Taylor Brown:
38:42-38:44
But anyway, we can be too legalistic about it.
Taylor Brown:
38:45-38:47
But it's a good principle to follow.
Taylor Brown:
38:47-38:50
Just imagine if your work said, you get three weeks vacation this year.
Taylor Brown:
38:50-38:51
Eh, I don't think so.
Taylor Brown:
38:51-38:52
You can have those back.
Taylor Brown:
38:52-38:59
God saying, "I want you to take a day to reconnect with me, "to recharge, to be with your family." Eh, no thanks God, I don't want that.
Taylor Brown:
38:59-39:01
It's a gift, it's a blessing from God.
Taylor Brown:
39:01-39:04
Now, I don't want you to be legalistic, oh, I can't cut my grass, can't do this.
Taylor Brown:
39:05-39:07
It's supposed to be a day of rest, not a day of rules.
Taylor Brown:
39:08-39:12
So it's a blessing, you don't have to do it, but I encourage you to find a day, maybe it's not Sunday.
Taylor Brown:
39:12-39:15
For Jeff and I, Sunday is not a day of rest.
Taylor Brown:
39:15-39:18
So I try to find another day of the week where I can-- - It's the one day a
Pastor Jeff:
39:18-39:19
week that we work.
Taylor Brown:
39:21-39:22
That could be a whole other sermon, I guess.
Mark Ort:
39:23-39:25
The one hour of the day.
Taylor Brown:
39:25-39:26
I've said I don't work the whole day.
Pastor Jeff:
39:27-39:28
Right, that's a misnomer.
Pastor Jeff:
39:29-39:30
I do not work the whole day.
Mark Ort:
39:30-39:36
Well, I think there's a verse in Matthew 11 that kind of helps us in this too.
Mark Ort:
39:37-39:49
The passage where Jesus says, "Come to me, "you who are weary and heavy laden, and I will give you." Yeah, and you see that on greeting cards and all that stuff.
Mark Ort:
39:49-39:54
And I think the verse is often taken out of context because we think, "Oh, I'm so tired.
Mark Ort:
39:54-39:56
"I need to have a rest." And yeah, we do.
Mark Ort:
39:57-40:00
We need to have a rest as we've talked about.
Mark Ort:
40:01-40:12
But in this particular passage, the context is that the people were striving and laboring and trying to get salvation.
Mark Ort:
40:13-40:17
And Jesus has said, "Stop the striving and all that stuff.
Mark Ort:
40:17-40:24
"Come to me." you're wearing yourself out trying to come to me on your own.
Mark Ort:
40:24-40:32
And so I think that passage helps us to know why that isn't reinstated in the New Testament.
Mark Ort:
40:33-40:53
It's like Jesus Christ is our rest and we need to lean upon him and rest upon him for our salvation and stop the striving and stop the clawing and scratching and all that stuff for your salvation because you don't need to do that.
Mark Ort:
40:54-40:55
Christ did that for you.
Mark Ort:
40:55-40:55
Right.
Pastor Jeff:
40:56-40:57
And that was it.
Pastor Jeff:
40:57-41:06
Yeah, it was this idea that I have to earn my salvation and Christ says, "No, take my yoke upon you." He's doing the heavy lifting there, right?
Pastor Jeff:
41:07-41:21
And, but like Taylor said, it's a good principle because we just talked about this very recently in Ecclesiastes, remember the guy that was just like, "Work all the time, work all the time." and he never stops and asks himself, who am I working for?
Pastor Jeff:
41:21-41:22
Why am I killing myself?
Pastor Jeff:
41:23-41:39
And remember Solomon gives the little proverb, he's like, "Better to have a hand of quietness "than two handfuls of toil." But it's a great principle because for some people, yeah, it's just no time for family, no time for relaxing, no time for rest or golf or anything.
Pastor Jeff:
41:39-41:42
It's just like, gotta be at work every day, all day.
Pastor Jeff:
41:43-41:46
And God says, that's not how you're designed.
Mark Ort:
41:46-41:54
Yeah, and we had a similar question in last year's July Q&A that I actually wrote a thing up on the blog.
Mark Ort:
41:54-42:04
So if you want more details on this, check out the website, go to the blog, and back up through several entries back to last July, and you can read about that.
Pastor Jeff:
42:05-42:06
No, it's a great question,
Mark Ort:
42:06-42:06
though.
Mark Ort:
42:06-42:08
Great question. - These are all good questions.
Mark Ort:
42:08-42:10
They're always great questions, amazing.
Mark Ort:
42:10-42:17
All right, does Nicodemus believe that Jesus is who He says He is.
Pastor Jeff:
42:18-42:20
I believe that ultimately He did.
Pastor Jeff:
42:20-42:25
And interestingly, when we went through John, we covered this.
Pastor Jeff:
42:25-42:35
Because when you get to John 19, here Jesus had offered Himself as a sacrifice and died.
Pastor Jeff:
42:36-42:39
And they asked for His body so they could bury Him.
Pastor Jeff:
42:40-42:48
And it says Nicodemus also, earlier, come to Jesus by night, came bringing a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about 75 pounds in weight.
Pastor Jeff:
42:49-42:55
And we talked about this, but you can trace Nicodemus' story throughout John.
Pastor Jeff:
42:56-43:01
You see him in John chapter three, he's like, you know, that's the whole, you must be born again.
Pastor Jeff:
43:02-43:07
How do you get born once you're outside the womb kind of thing, and Jesus explained that to him.
Pastor Jeff:
43:07-43:17
The next time you see Nicodemus in John, Remember, he was challenging the other Pharisees, the members of the council, because they're ready to condemn Jesus.
Pastor Jeff:
43:17-43:25
And he's like, "Does our law condemn someone "without hearing him out first?" So you see him start to change.
Pastor Jeff:
43:25-43:33
And then by the time you get to John 19, okay, Jesus crucified, his disciples scatter, everybody except John, his mother, and some women.
Pastor Jeff:
43:33-43:36
But everybody abandons Jesus, and who shows up?
Pastor Jeff:
43:36-43:43
Like these two basic unknowns as far as discipleship goes, it was Joseph of Arimathea and Nicodemus.
Pastor Jeff:
43:43-43:46
And I talked about them in that message.
Pastor Jeff:
43:46-43:57
I do think that Nicodemus, by just the fruit of what you see in his life, his growth over time, and John, I think he did become a believer.
Mark Ort:
43:57-44:00
Yeah, I believe that too, based on that exact same verse.
Mark Ort:
44:02-44:03
How about Genesis 3?
Mark Ort:
44:03-44:05
We'll jump back to Genesis, is that all right?
Mark Ort:
44:05-44:08
It makes mention of Satan's offspring.
Mark Ort:
44:09-44:11
Did Satan procreate with humans?
Mark Ort:
44:12-44:14
Who was Satan's offspring?
Pastor Jeff:
44:14-44:16
Satan did not procreate with humans.
Pastor Jeff:
44:17-44:20
However, Satan does have children.
Pastor Jeff:
44:21-44:22
What is it? John 8.44?
Pastor Jeff:
44:24-44:24
Is that the reference?
Pastor Jeff:
44:25-44:32
Yeah, Jesus said, "You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires." He was a murderer from the beginning.
Pastor Jeff:
44:32-44:35
He does not stand in the truth there is no truth in him.
Pastor Jeff:
44:36-44:49
When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, but he is a liar and the father of lies." So Satan doesn't have children the natural way, but he does have children, right?
Pastor Jeff:
44:49-45:03
Because Jesus said people who want to do the things that Satan does, murder, lie, steal, kill, destroy, people that do that show that Satan is their father, not God.
Pastor Jeff:
45:04-45:05
You only have one of two fathers, right?
Pastor Jeff:
45:05-45:06
You're in one of two camps.
Pastor Jeff:
45:07-45:17
And I think there's the really good people that are in God's camp, and then there's the really bad people in Satan's camp, and most people are in this sort of orphan camp, and that's not biblical either.
Pastor Jeff:
45:18-45:20
Either God's your father, or the devil's your father.
Pastor Jeff:
45:21-45:22
Who are you serving?
Mark Ort:
45:25-45:25
Alright.
Mark Ort:
45:27-45:28
I love this question.
Mark Ort:
45:29-45:37
"What do you think is the strongest evidence outside of the Bible that Jesus of Nazareth is a historical existence?
Pastor Jeff:
45:39-45:40
This is a really good question.
Pastor Jeff:
45:41-45:43
And I thought a lot about this.
Pastor Jeff:
45:43-45:50
To me, the strongest evidence outside of the Bible is this church.
Pastor Jeff:
45:51-45:55
Seeing the love of Christ manifested through you.
Pastor Jeff:
45:56-46:02
When I hear how people in this church have been ministering to Don Saber these past few months, awesome.
Pastor Jeff:
46:03-46:09
And when I see, anytime somebody in this church is down and out, I see people rallying around to encourage and pray for them, lift them up.
Pastor Jeff:
46:10-46:16
I just see the love of Christ so obviously and tangibly manifested in this church.
Pastor Jeff:
46:16-46:25
So I would say outside of the Bible, that to me is the strongest evidence of the presence of Jesus Christ, if we have to go outside of the Bible.
Pastor Jeff:
46:27-46:29
There's a lot of historians and writers back during that
Taylor Brown:
46:29-47:13
time that wrote about Jesus. So maybe you come across people who say, "I don't know if Jesus actually existed." There's not many credible historians who would ever say that. It's not a matter of if Jesus existed, the question you have to answer is, "Who do I think that he is?" We know that he lived, we know that he died, do I believe that he resurrected from the grave or not? That question changes everything about who you are as a person. Something else that I think is really strong evidence is we know all the twelve disciples, besides Judas for obvious reasons and John, they were martyred and murdered for their faith in Jesus Christ. Why would they do that for someone who never existed? Or for someone they knew was dead and never came back? Right. Maybe one of them, maybe two of them, but all of them? That's just too much. We know from history that these men were all murdered for their faith in Christ.
Pastor Jeff:
47:14-47:15
Exactly. Exactly.
Mark Ort:
47:15-47:25
Yeah, you can check that stuff out, like with the historian type thing. I was I was looking into Josephus, who was a historian who was born in AD 37 and lived to about 100 AD.
Mark Ort:
47:26-47:28
And he wrote about Jesus.
Mark Ort:
47:29-47:36
And in fact, has a lot more information about Jesus that is not recorded in the Bible.
Mark Ort:
47:37-47:46
And it's not inspired stuff, obviously, but he was a historian and he was well-regarded and well-revered.
Mark Ort:
47:46-47:53
And so if he was writing about this figure back then, would have easily been discredited by all the people around him.
Mark Ort:
47:54-48:00
Like, "Oh, you're a fool, that guy never existed." But he wasn't discredited and his works survived to this day.
Pastor Jeff:
48:00-48:11
Yeah, the argument like, "I don't think Jesus ever existed." That's like saying, "I don't think George Washington existed." Just because I don't happen to live in the same period of history when the person walked the earth.
Pastor Jeff:
48:14-48:22
Even outside of God's Word, we have historians that attest to the fact that a man named Jesus lived on the earth.
Pastor Jeff:
48:22-48:24
Like Taylor said, the question isn't did He live?
Pastor Jeff:
48:24-48:30
The question is the same one he asked the disciples in Matthew 16.
Pastor Jeff:
48:30-48:31
Who do you say that I am?
Mark Ort:
48:34-48:35
Alright, next question.
Mark Ort:
48:36-48:42
In Daniel 10, at the very end of the chapter it says, "But I will tell you what is inscribed in the book of truth.
Mark Ort:
48:43-48:52
"There is none who contends by my side except these," I'm sorry, "against these except Michael your prince." Why is Michael called a prince?
Mark Ort:
48:53-48:58
And are there other angels known as princes like Michael?
Pastor Jeff:
48:58-49:02
I do not know of any other angels referred to that way.
Pastor Jeff:
49:02-49:07
Michael obviously was one of, if not the, head angel.
Pastor Jeff:
49:07-49:17
He comes up in Jude, he comes up in Revelation, And obviously here in Daniel, he seems like he was one of the top angels of the Lord.
Pastor Jeff:
49:17-49:18
I think that's why he's called the Prince.
Pastor Jeff:
49:18-49:22
I don't know of anywhere else in the Bible that angels are referred to that way.
Pastor Jeff:
49:24-49:28
So I think it speaks to his rank among the angels, is my short answer.
Mark Ort:
49:29-49:31
And we are going with short answers.
Pastor Jeff:
49:31-49:31
We are going with short answers.
Mark Ort:
49:33-49:36
When do the Old Testament saints get their glorified bodies?
Mark Ort:
49:37-49:41
If it is not at the time of the rapture when the dead rise first, can you explain?
Pastor Jeff:
49:43-49:45
I believe it is at the time of the rapture.
Pastor Jeff:
49:45-49:48
You know, 1 Corinthians 15, we did a series on that.
Pastor Jeff:
49:48-49:49
What was that, last year?
Pastor Jeff:
49:50-49:54
We talked about the dead in Christ will rise first.
Pastor Jeff:
49:54-49:59
In that time, I believe that all believers...
Pastor Jeff:
49:59-50:01
Oh, that's our time.
Taylor Brown:
50:02-50:03
Your love.
Taylor Brown:
50:03-50:04
Stop playing Pac-Man on stage.
Pastor Jeff:
50:05-50:08
I didn't know where I was going with that answer.
Pastor Jeff:
50:09-50:10
Alright, thanks everybody.
Pastor Jeff:
50:12-50:16
Now I believe that at the rapture is when we, you know, we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed.
Pastor Jeff:
50:17-50:19
You know, in the twinkling of an eye, we talked about that.
Pastor Jeff:
50:20-50:24
You know, in the speed of time, quicker than it takes light to get through your eye.
Pastor Jeff:
50:25-50:31
Quicker than that, we will receive our glorified body, but the dead in Christ will rise first.
Pastor Jeff:
50:31-50:35
And I believe that that includes Old Testament saints.
Pastor Jeff:
50:35-50:36
We talked about that before.
Pastor Jeff:
50:37-50:49
You're like, "Well, are Old Testament saints Christians?" Well, our faith is based on looking back in history at what God did in the past.
Pastor Jeff:
50:49-50:51
The cross, the empty tomb.
Pastor Jeff:
50:51-50:56
In the Old Testament, their faith was based on trusting what God was going to do.
Pastor Jeff:
50:56-51:00
They knew God was going to send someone who was going to take their sin away.
Pastor Jeff:
51:01-51:10
So in that sense, those who truly believed they were Christians because they believed in what God was going to do through Messiah.
Pastor Jeff:
51:10-51:12
So it's kind of a timeline thing.
Pastor Jeff:
51:12-51:17
But I believe that's when the Old Testament saints received their glorified bodies.
Pastor Jeff:
51:18-51:19
Alright, and I'm going to
Mark Ort:
51:19-51:20
do you a big favor.
Mark Ort:
51:20-51:25
I'm going to keep you from having to blog, because we have one more question and then we're done.
Mark Ort:
51:26-51:28
You want to do one more or should we...?
Mark Ort:
51:28-51:29
Okay. Alright.
Pastor Jeff:
51:31-51:33
That'll save Taylor from blogging.
Pastor Jeff:
51:34-51:36
I was going to have him do it.
Mark Ort:
51:36-51:38
All right, we're going with short answer.
Mark Ort:
51:38-51:39
Last question.
Mark Ort:
51:39-51:43
"Why does the Lord send Saul and evil spirits several times in 1 Samuel?
Mark Ort:
51:44-51:45
Why would the Lord do that?
Mark Ort:
51:46-51:49
We are told to resist the devil and he will flee."
Taylor Brown:
51:51-51:52
That's a question with a hard, short answer.
Pastor Jeff:
51:54-51:56
That is a really good question.
Mark Ort:
51:57-51:58
I have your notes if you want them.
Pastor Jeff:
52:00-52:01
You know what, that's what I'm looking at here.
Pastor Jeff:
52:01-52:09
The reason I'm looking at my notes here is because this question bothered me so much many years ago.
Pastor Jeff:
52:10-52:12
I did this whole study, pages and pages long.
Pastor Jeff:
52:13-52:14
I mean just pages long.
Pastor Jeff:
52:14-52:15
I'm going to read the whole thing to you now.
Pastor Jeff:
52:17-52:18
Not the whole thing.
Pastor Jeff:
52:18-52:33
I'm just going to -- if you'll indulge me here, I'm going to read part of it because I was trying to be very careful in the way that I worded this, and this was the answer that I put when I did this study many, many, many years ago.
Pastor Jeff:
52:34-52:43
"In what sense was the evil spirit from the Lord?" I believe that God did not force a demon upon Saul.
Pastor Jeff:
52:43-52:53
In fact, the text doesn't say that Saul became demon-possessed, only that an evil spirit troubled him, meaning afflicted him externally.
Pastor Jeff:
52:54-52:58
But in His sovereignty, God permitted the evil spirit to afflict Saul.
Pastor Jeff:
52:59-53:11
In Hebrew language, commonly used as such figures of speech, that is, it's from the Lord, means God allowed it to happen in His sovereignty.
Pastor Jeff:
53:12-53:13
That's the short answer.
Pastor Jeff:
53:13-53:15
I have like three more paragraphs.
Pastor Jeff:
53:17-53:18
That's the short answer.
Pastor Jeff:
53:19-53:23
And I can send whoever is interested in this, I can send you the whole study.
Pastor Jeff:
53:23-53:37
But the rest of it goes on to talk about the fact that when somebody refuses to honor God, you're opening yourself up to evil spiritual affliction.
Pastor Jeff:
53:38-53:40
And that's even New Testament, right?
Pastor Jeff:
53:40-53:45
Like Acts 5, Ananias and Sapphira lying.
Pastor Jeff:
53:45-53:49
You know that story, they were lying about what they gave and God struck them dead.
Pastor Jeff:
53:49-53:50
Bet nobody forgot that church service.
Pastor Jeff:
53:51-53:53
But it was like from the devil, right?
Pastor Jeff:
53:54-54:07
They said, "Why did Satan get you to lie like this?" So again, because they dishonored God, they were open to influence from the work of the devil himself.
Pastor Jeff:
54:08-54:09
And we can trace that through.
Pastor Jeff:
54:09-54:17
You know, 1 Corinthians 5, the guy that was committing adultery with his stepmom, Paul says, "Cast him out of the church." For what purpose?
Pastor Jeff:
54:17-54:33
"For the destruction of the flesh." He says, "Hand him over to Satan." So when you flat out refuse to get on board with what God's doing, you're opening yourself up to some bad spiritual stuff, and I think that's what happened with Saul.
Pastor Jeff:
54:33-54:37
Taylor, what would you want to add to that?
Taylor Brown:
54:37-54:42
One thing you see in the book of Exodus, that Pharaoh hardened his heart against God.
Taylor Brown:
54:42-54:46
It says, "God also hardened Pharaoh's heart." We think, "Wait, does that mean God put evil in Pharaoh's heart?
Taylor Brown:
54:47-54:48
He put him down the wrong path?" No.
Taylor Brown:
54:49-55:03
light and there's no darkness at all, God doesn't need to put evil in our hearts, it's already there. So he lifts his restraining hand, so it's not an active hardening of someone's heart or Pharaoh's heart, it's a lifting his hand, it's a passive hardening. So it's similar with something like this as well.
Pastor Jeff:
55:04-55:25
Right, right. And it's not like, well, Saul was afflicted by a spirit and it was unbeknownst to the Lord that this happened. I mean, obviously not, right? And so again in the Hebrew mindset, it was to say that God permitted it was the same is saying, "Yeah, that was from God." So, again, there's so much more I could share about that.
Pastor Jeff:
55:25-55:28
But again, we're going for the short answer.
Pastor Jeff:
55:29-55:32
I think that sufficiently answered this question.
Pastor Jeff:
55:32-55:35
And I'm told we're having a party for Taylor right now.
Pastor Jeff:
55:36-55:36
There's cake.
Pastor Jeff:
55:37-55:38
Is there a pinata?
Pastor Jeff:
55:40-55:41
There could be.
Pastor Jeff:
55:42-55:42
All right.
Taylor Brown:
55:43-55:44
Does it have my face on it?
Pastor Jeff:
55:44-55:45
Well...
Taylor Brown:
55:46-55:47
That'd be awkward.
Pastor Jeff:
55:47-55:57
What we should do is kind of like hang Taylor up and everybody beat him with a stick and see if candy comes out, because that's what being a pastor feels like sometimes.
Pastor Jeff:
55:59-56:00
True or false?
Pastor Jeff:
56:03-56:04
Oh, it's true.
Pastor Jeff:
56:04-56:16
All right, so Taylor, would you please, as the worship team makes their way forward, thank you everybody for your questions, and we went a little OT here, which happens quite a bit, but we appreciated everybody's questions they submitted.
Pastor Jeff:
56:16-56:19
we got to all of them and none of them slipped through the cracks or whatever.
Pastor Jeff:
56:19-56:23
But we're gonna close in worship, but I'm gonna ask Pastor Taylor if he'd close our time here with prayer.
Taylor Brown:
56:24-56:26
Lord, we thank you so much for your word.
Taylor Brown:
56:26-56:33
We thank you so much that you tell us who you are, you tell us who we are, and you tell us how you expect us to live this life.
Taylor Brown:
56:34-56:49
Lord, so many people are walking around right now not knowing what life is about. They have no idea who you are and what they're even doing here. Lord, we have this awesome purpose, this awesome mission that you've given us to grow closer to you, to become more like Christ and invite people to this awesome party.
Taylor Brown:
56:50-56:54
This awesome experience of knowing you and being with you forever.
Taylor Brown:
56:54-56:55
Lord, we thank you so much for this time.
Taylor Brown:
56:55-56:58
I pray we all continue to grow in our love and our knowledge of you.
Taylor Brown:
56:58-56:59
In Jesus' name, Amen.
