Note: The time signatures [00:00] below indicate the start of a question if you'd like to skip to a particular one of interest in the audio file.
[04:47] - Q: Do you believe we can get signs, messages from loved ones who die? Can we communicate with them? Can mediums?
A: See Deut 18:9-12 | Matt 6:9 | John 14:13 | Rom 8:26[07:30] - Q: My fellow Christian family members continue to make statements that loved ones who have passed are now angels or they're guardian angels & are leaving them signs that they are okay and watching over them. I know that humans and angels are distinctly separated & that we don't become angels. How do I respond or am I wrong?
A: See Rev 14:13 | Heb 13:2[11:21] - Q: What do the Jehovah's Witnesses reference from the Bible in that they don't take blood products?
[13:55] - Q: Calvinism, Arminianism, or Molinism? What is Harvest's position on these views?
A: See Deut 30:19 | 2 Cor 5:20 | John 6:37 | Deut 29:29[21:05] - Q: Why do some preachers only ever preach about God's love and never about His judgement? (Note: Live from the audience question. The question was not captured on the recording, only the answer was.)
A: See Deut 30:19 | 2 Cor 5:20 | John 6:37 | Deut 29:29[23:48] - Q: Can you further explain how God mourns and is saddened with us when tragedy occurs in our lives and how He may not command for these things to happen, but allows it because of the sinful world we live in?
A: See: John 11:35 - Jesus Wept.[28:12] - Q: Describe the differences between "death", "sheol", "hades" and "the lake of fire". What does Rev 20:14 mean when it says that death and hades were thrown into the lake of fire?
A: See: Matt 11:23 | Luke 16:19-23[35:32] - Q: Being in High School I am constantly surrounded by the "do what you think is right" mentality. That being said, how can I be confident in what the Bible says is right and wrong?
A: See John 7:17 | Judges 21:25
This question was missed due to time constraints during the service. Pastor Jeff will address this in a blog posting on the website. Check back for a link later.
Q: Why did Jesus (in the whole New Testament) not say a single word about being gay but he condemned adultery and many other things. Did Jesus love gay people who were born this way?
Sermon Notes (PDF): BLANK
Hint: Highlight blanks above for answers!
-
Mark Ort:
00:43-00:44
So, Jeff, you had a nice Christmas?
Mark Ort:
00:44-00:45
The Miller family had a great Christmas?
Pastor Jeff:
00:46-00:47
Yes, we had a very nice Christmas.
Pastor Jeff:
00:47-00:48
How about the Orts?
Pastor Jeff:
00:48-00:48
We did.
Mark Ort:
00:48-00:49
We had a great time.
Pastor Jeff:
00:49-00:51
Were you on naughty list or nice list this year?
Mark Ort:
00:52-00:54
You have to ask my family.
Pastor Jeff:
00:55-00:57
Because I know 2016 was a rough year for you.
Pastor Jeff:
00:57-00:59
I just, did he make a rebound this year, Kristen?
Pastor Jeff:
01:00-01:01
Okay, all right.
Pastor Jeff:
01:01-01:01
Well done.
Pastor Jeff:
01:02-01:02
Well done.
Mark Ort:
01:03-01:04
Well, um.
Pastor Jeff:
01:04-01:05
Did you get anything fun for Christmas?
Mark Ort:
01:07-01:08
I got this sweater.
Pastor Jeff:
01:08-01:09
That sweater is really fun.
Mark Ort:
01:10-01:10
Yeah.
Pastor Jeff:
01:11-01:13
Especially when it's like, you know, two degrees outside.
Pastor Jeff:
01:13-01:14
It's really fun.
Mark Ort:
01:14-01:15
Yeah, absolutely.
Pastor Jeff:
01:15-01:16
All right, ask me if I got anything fun.
Mark Ort:
01:16-01:17
What did you get fun, Jeff?
Pastor Jeff:
01:17-01:19
My mother-in-law got me these sweet cakes.
Pastor Jeff:
01:19-01:19
Aren't they sweet?
Pastor Jeff:
01:22-01:23
I'm fishing for compliments.
Pastor Jeff:
01:23-01:24
Aren't they sweet?
Pastor Jeff:
01:24-01:25
(audience laughing)
Pastor Jeff:
01:25-01:26
Thank you, Mark.
Pastor Jeff:
01:27-01:29
No, too late, Mark.
Pastor Jeff:
01:30-01:32
I'm putting a word in for you.
Pastor Jeff:
01:32-01:33
Nice list, 2018.
Pastor Jeff:
01:33-01:34
Okay.
Pastor Jeff:
01:34-01:36
Hey, we have Q&A day
Mark Ort:
01:36-01:36
today.
Mark Ort:
01:36-01:36
It
Pastor Jeff:
01:36-01:37
is Q&A day.
Pastor Jeff:
01:37-01:38
I love Q&A day.
Mark Ort:
01:39-01:40
I love Q&A day myself.
Mark Ort:
01:40-01:42
Because I don't have to prepare a sermon, I have to
Pastor Jeff:
01:42-01:43
prepare like eight.
Mark Ort:
01:46-01:51
But it's fun though, we do this twice a year or something and it's very fun.
Mark Ort:
01:52-01:54
My boys were looking forward to this, they love Q&A day.
Mark Ort:
01:55-01:58
And maybe it's because they don't have to sit by me, I'm up here, I don't know.
Pastor Jeff:
02:00-02:01
I love Q&A day.
Pastor Jeff:
02:01-02:05
And the reason we do, we talked about this, we were praying in my office before the service.
Pastor Jeff:
02:06-02:12
And you know why we do this, is it gives confidence to go to God's word for answers.
Pastor Jeff:
02:13-02:17
You know, it's not like, well, we have some questions, but we're not sure it's appropriate.
Pastor Jeff:
02:18-02:20
God invites the questions.
Pastor Jeff:
02:20-02:26
So that's why we encourage you to ask anything, and we'll hopefully have time to give you opportunity to do that today.
Pastor Jeff:
02:27-02:30
I'm not checking my email, I'm trying to set the timer on my phone.
Pastor Jeff:
02:30-02:33
How long do we wanna go with Q&A?
Pastor Jeff:
02:34-02:34
How long?
Pastor Jeff:
02:36-02:36
Two hours?
Pastor Jeff:
02:38-02:41
Darla, you are on the nice list for the next three years.
Pastor Jeff:
02:43-02:43
See?
Pastor Jeff:
02:46-02:48
I think people should bask in your wisdom, Darla.
Pastor Jeff:
02:49-02:50
All right.
Pastor Jeff:
02:50-02:52
We should make this like an auction.
Pastor Jeff:
02:52-02:54
Two hours, two hours, three hours, three hours, three hours.
Pastor Jeff:
02:57-02:59
Is a half hour reasonable?
Pastor Jeff:
03:01-03:02
Thank you, Mark.
Pastor Jeff:
03:03-03:03
all of a sudden.
Mark Ort:
03:04-03:09
We do have a couple of rules that we have for Q&A day.
Mark Ort:
03:09-03:10
Yes, why don't you review
Pastor Jeff:
03:10-03:11
the rules that I'm trying to figure out.
Pastor Jeff:
03:12-03:12
I've only had this
Mark Ort:
03:12-03:14
phone for like two years.
Mark Ort:
03:14-03:19
All right, one of the rules is we're gonna read the question as we understand it.
Mark Ort:
03:20-03:27
I guess as it was written, but there's one question on here that I have to add a word to, and we'll get to that.
Pastor Jeff:
03:27-03:32
Yeah, we wanna present the questions as they're written because I wouldn't want somebody to be like, well, that wasn't the question that I asked.
Pastor Jeff:
03:32-03:34
So we're just going to present them as they were written, right?
Mark Ort:
03:35-03:35
Exactly.
Mark Ort:
03:35-03:43
And we have a limited amount of time, so if we don't get to any questions, if there's a couple we don't get to, Jeff will write about it on the blog.
Pastor Jeff:
03:45-03:46
Yes, I will.
Pastor Jeff:
03:46-03:47
I will do that.
Pastor Jeff:
03:47-03:48
I will blog whatever we don't get to.
Pastor Jeff:
03:49-03:50
What sound effect do you want when the timer goes off?
03:51-03:51
I
Mark Ort:
03:51-03:52
like your Pac-Man one.
Pastor Jeff:
03:52-03:53
You like the Pac-Man one?
Pastor Jeff:
03:53-03:55
Let me see if I can find that.
Pastor Jeff:
03:58-03:59
Oh, that's my ringtone.
Pastor Jeff:
03:59-03:59
There we go.
Pastor Jeff:
04:00-04:01
All right.
Pastor Jeff:
04:01-04:01
All
04:01-04:02
right,
Mark Ort:
04:02-04:06
so as usual, we have really good questions.
Mark Ort:
04:06-04:10
Yeah, we had some really good questions, which I did not appreciate
Pastor Jeff:
04:10-04:12
having you do that much extra work between Christmas and New Year's.
Pastor Jeff:
04:13-04:15
I'm totally, you realize I'm kidding, right?
Pastor Jeff:
04:15-04:18
You realize, you're like, okay, stop kidding, you're not funny, okay.
Mark Ort:
04:18-04:21
Not to put any extra pressure on you, but we want really good answers too.
Pastor Jeff:
04:21-04:22
Well,
Mark Ort:
04:23-04:23
God's word
Pastor Jeff:
04:23-04:24
has them.
Mark Ort:
04:25-04:25
That's right.
Pastor Jeff:
04:25-04:26
God's word has them.
Pastor Jeff:
04:26-04:28
I'll stop kidding around mostly for now.
Pastor Jeff:
04:28-04:28
Okay,
Mark Ort:
04:29-04:29
so you ready to go?
Mark Ort:
04:30-04:30
Yeah.
Mark Ort:
04:30-04:33
All right, timer starting. Timer's on.
Mark Ort:
04:33-04:35
All right. I should have put my glasses on before.
Mark Ort:
04:35-04:36
Yeah,
Pastor Jeff:
04:36-04:38
well, hang on. Start restarting the timer.
Pastor Jeff:
04:39-04:43
Hey, I'm not, no, I'm not, no. That 15 seconds is on you, Mark.
Pastor Jeff:
04:43-04:44
That's not, we're not taking that out of Q&A.
Pastor Jeff:
04:44-04:45
Sounds good. - Okay, you ready now?
Pastor Jeff:
04:45-04:46
Yeah, we're ready. - Okay, you're good.
Mark Ort:
04:47-04:47
All right, first question.
Mark Ort:
04:47-04:52
Do you believe we can get signs and messages from loved ones who die?
Mark Ort:
04:52-04:55
Can we communicate with them? Can mediums?
Pastor Jeff:
04:56-05:05
That is a really good question. And the answer, first of all, "Do you believe we can get the signs?" No, because God condemns the practice in his Word.
Pastor Jeff:
05:05-05:08
And if you're taking notes, you wanna jot some references down.
Pastor Jeff:
05:08-05:13
God condemns the practice, Deuteronomy 18, verses nine through 12, among other places.
Pastor Jeff:
05:15-05:27
But when you look at the Bible, the Bible only prescribes one form of, whether you wanna call it prayer, is what we call it, or supernatural communication.
Pastor Jeff:
05:28-05:30
There's only one way the Bible describes that, right?
Pastor Jeff:
05:30-05:40
And it's to the Father, Matthew 6, 9, through the Son, John 14, 13, and with the Holy Spirit, Romans 8, 26.
Pastor Jeff:
05:41-05:44
That's the only way God's Word prescribes prayer.
Pastor Jeff:
05:45-05:48
To the Father, through the Son, and with the Holy Spirit.
Pastor Jeff:
05:49-05:55
And as far as should we use mediums to communicate with the dead?
Pastor Jeff:
05:55-05:58
Well, I encourage you to read 1 Samuel 28.
Pastor Jeff:
05:59-06:01
And do you remember King Saul?
Pastor Jeff:
06:01-06:06
He looked great as Israel's first king, but the problem was he only looked great.
Pastor Jeff:
06:06-06:07
He wasn't great on the inside.
Pastor Jeff:
06:08-06:13
And he wanted to communicate with Samuel who had died at that point, and it didn't end well.
Pastor Jeff:
06:13-06:16
And spoiler alert, Saul isn't a good example for anything.
Pastor Jeff:
06:17-06:18
We've been studying, haven't we, Kate?
Pastor Jeff:
06:18-06:21
We've been studying King Saul at home in our Bible stories, haven't we?
Pastor Jeff:
06:22-06:24
Yeah, so he's not a good example, is he?
Pastor Jeff:
06:25-06:26
No, he hasn't.
Pastor Jeff:
06:27-06:36
So after he tried to communicate with Samuel, Saul ended up being wounded in battle, took his own life, the end of a string of sinful choices by Saul.
Pastor Jeff:
06:37-06:38
So what do mediums do?
Pastor Jeff:
06:39-06:41
Honestly, Mark, I think it's two things.
Pastor Jeff:
06:41-06:42
It's either fake or it's demonic.
Pastor Jeff:
06:43-06:44
I think some of them, they're just charlatans.
Pastor Jeff:
06:44-06:52
You know, you're gonna message from your grandmother, said it's either fake or it's demonic.
Pastor Jeff:
06:52-07:01
Because if God condemns it, why would he allow a saint that is in heaven to communicate?
Pastor Jeff:
07:01-07:02
You know what I mean?
Pastor Jeff:
07:02-07:07
Like if, like my father, he's in heaven, my earthly father, he's in heaven.
Pastor Jeff:
07:08-07:16
Why would God allow him to communicate and send messages to me if God's word forbids it?
Pastor Jeff:
07:18-07:19
No, I don't
Mark Ort:
07:19-07:22
believe in messing around with any of that.
Mark Ort:
07:22-07:26
And there's one mediator between man and God anyway, right?
Mark Ort:
07:26-07:26
Who's that?
Mark Ort:
07:26-07:28
Amen, the man is Christ Jesus.
Mark Ort:
07:28-07:28
Amen.
Mark Ort:
07:30-07:31
All right, ready to move on to the second?
Mark Ort:
07:31-07:32
Yes, let's go.
Mark Ort:
07:32-07:33
All right, question number two.
Mark Ort:
07:34-07:46
My fellow Christian family members continue to make statements that loved ones who have passed on are now angels or they're guardian angels and are leaving them signs that they are okay and watching over them.
Mark Ort:
07:46-07:52
I know that humans and angels are distinctively separated and that we don't become angels.
Mark Ort:
07:52-07:55
How do I respond, or am I wrong?
Pastor Jeff:
07:56-07:59
Actually, whoever wrote this is exactly right.
Pastor Jeff:
08:00-08:04
Humans do not become angels when we die.
Pastor Jeff:
08:04-08:09
Humans and angels are two completely different types of creation, okay?
Pastor Jeff:
08:09-08:15
And despite what you've seen in the cartoons, you don't turn into angels.
Pastor Jeff:
08:15-08:17
And I think cartoons haven't helped with that.
Pastor Jeff:
08:17-08:18
I like cartoons.
Pastor Jeff:
08:18-08:20
I get boys that watch cartoons.
Pastor Jeff:
08:20-08:28
And isn't that depicted in the cartoons You know, like Tom and Jerry, when he's chasing the mouse and he dies, he didn't go to heaven.
Pastor Jeff:
08:28-08:29
He went to the other place.
Pastor Jeff:
08:29-08:30
That was a bad example.
Pastor Jeff:
08:31-08:32
But forget that.
Pastor Jeff:
08:32-08:37
But in other cartoons, you know, you die and all of a sudden you're an angel.
Pastor Jeff:
08:37-08:39
And that's just, that's not true.
Pastor Jeff:
08:41-08:43
Humans and angels are two different types of creatures.
Pastor Jeff:
08:43-08:45
So how do you respond?
Pastor Jeff:
08:46-08:47
Tactfully.
Pastor Jeff:
08:48-08:50
And I would say look for the appropriate time.
Pastor Jeff:
08:50-09:19
Okay, not while we're gathered around for prayer around grandma's casket might not be the best time to hey by the way Well straighten up your theology on the whole angel thing that might not be the best time You have to discern the most appropriate time, and I'm just here's what I would do When the subject came up Like let's say you're like yeah, you know I'm sure you know Grandma's an angel in heaven right now looking down on us, and I would say You know what's funny about that?
Pastor Jeff:
09:19-09:33
Is I grew up thinking that people turned into angels when we died, and I remember in the Methodist church, we were a youth group at Carden City Methodist Church, and I said something to the pastor about turning into an angel when we die.
Pastor Jeff:
09:34-09:39
That pastor said, "We don't turn into angels when we die." And I remember that completely blew my mind.
Pastor Jeff:
09:39-09:40
Did you know that?
Pastor Jeff:
09:41-09:45
So I was like, I had to like study the Bible, and when I studied the Bible, I'm like, you know what?
Pastor Jeff:
09:46-09:48
I was wrong, we don't turn into angels when we die.
Pastor Jeff:
09:49-09:53
So I think coming alongside the person to say, yeah, I used to think that because I totally did.
Pastor Jeff:
09:54-09:55
You know, Tom and Jerry had me fooled too.
Pastor Jeff:
09:55-10:00
And I just come alongside and say, yeah, I used to think that too, but you know what I found out?
Pastor Jeff:
10:00-10:01
I found out that's not right.
Pastor Jeff:
10:02-10:08
So like the previous answer, people aren't leaving signs for you.
Pastor Jeff:
10:09-10:12
You know, people are not your guardian angels.
Pastor Jeff:
10:13-10:18
According to Revelation 14.13, they are resting from their labors.
Pastor Jeff:
10:18-10:22
That's why you see on tombstones a lot of time, rest in peace.
Pastor Jeff:
10:22-10:24
I believe that that comes from Revelation 14.13.
Pastor Jeff:
10:24-10:27
It says the dead are resting from their labors.
Mark Ort:
10:29-10:37
One thing, when I read this question, Jeff, I was thinking about how angels manifest themselves sometimes as humans.
Mark Ort:
10:37-10:40
We see that in Hebrews 13.2.
Mark Ort:
10:40-10:46
Some have entertained angels unawares or without knowing about it, but it doesn't go vice versa.
Mark Ort:
10:48-10:50
Humans do not somehow turn into angels.
Pastor Jeff:
10:50-10:53
Right, God has appeared to us at times.
Pastor Jeff:
10:54-10:58
The Bible, you know, like refers to the angel of the Lord, especially in the Old Testament.
Pastor Jeff:
10:58-11:11
Sometimes that was Jesus Christ himself in a pre-incarnate appearance, you know, but the Bible just refers to that as the angel of the Lord, but you're right, they, by all appearances, just look to be human.
Pastor Jeff:
11:12-11:19
So yeah, angels have taken that appearance, but you don't ever see it the other way around, that humans take on angelic qualities.
Mark Ort:
11:21-11:23
Okay, next question, a really good one.
Mark Ort:
11:23-11:29
What do the Jehovah's Witnesses reference from the Bible in that they don't take blood products?
Mark Ort:
11:30-11:31
That
Pastor Jeff:
11:31-11:33
is a really good question, and I had to do some homework on that.
Pastor Jeff:
11:33-11:38
I actually went straight to the Jehovah's Witnesses website to do some digging around.
Pastor Jeff:
11:39-11:41
And this is a direct quote, what it says on their website.
Pastor Jeff:
11:42-11:45
"This is a religious issue rather than a medical one.
Pastor Jeff:
11:45-11:56
"Both the Old and New Testaments clearly command us "to abstain from blood." And then there's some scripture references, Genesis 9, 4, Leviticus 17, 10, Deuteronomy 12, 23, Acts 15, 28, 29.
Pastor Jeff:
11:57-12:01
"Also, God views blood as representing life," Leviticus 17, 14.
Pastor Jeff:
12:01-12:08
"So we avoid taking blood not only in obedience to God, "but out of respect for him as the giver of life." There's a problem with that.
Pastor Jeff:
12:08-12:12
The blood restrictions in the Bible are dietary.
Pastor Jeff:
12:13-12:15
Okay, it's don't eat blood.
Pastor Jeff:
12:17-12:27
So when it talks about not taking, I did some more reading on their website, they won't take blood transfusions because the Bible says don't eat blood.
Pastor Jeff:
12:28-12:36
So I would encourage somebody here today, if you have time on the way home, stop by the Kingdom Hall and explain to them how a blood transfusion works.
Pastor Jeff:
12:38-12:41
Because you don't drink the blood.
Pastor Jeff:
12:42-12:42
Right, doctor?
Pastor Jeff:
12:42-12:44
I'm shooting from the hip here.
Pastor Jeff:
12:44-12:48
I mean, I'm not a doctor, but you get a blood transfusion, you don't drink it, right?
Pastor Jeff:
12:48-12:49
Okay, all right.
Pastor Jeff:
12:49-12:50
So the Bible says don't drink the blood.
Pastor Jeff:
12:52-12:54
But the question is, where did they get it from?
Pastor Jeff:
12:54-12:57
They got it from those references that say to avoid blood.
Mark Ort:
12:58-13:00
Have you had Jehovah's Witnesses come to your house?
13:00-13:01
Oh yeah,
Pastor Jeff:
13:02-13:03
just a few months ago.
Pastor Jeff:
13:04-13:04
A few months ago.
Pastor Jeff:
13:06-13:16
And we got into a lively discussion on the divinity of Jesus Christ, and this person had some prepared answers for a lot of the Scriptures I shared, except one.
Pastor Jeff:
13:17-13:21
Hebrews 1.8, "God the Father calls God the Son God," and I shared that with him.
Pastor Jeff:
13:21-13:29
And I said, "Now, if God the Father calls Jesus God, what do you think I should call Him?" And he was like, "Yeah,
13:29-13:30
God."
Mark Ort:
13:30-13:35
So … I've had discussions with Jehovah's Witnesses in the past.
Mark Ort:
13:35-13:36
They haven't been to our house recently.
Pastor Jeff:
13:36-13:38
That's because of where you live.
13:38-13:39
(laughing)
13:39-13:40
That could be in
Mark Ort:
13:40-13:40
the middle of nowhere.
Mark Ort:
13:40-13:41
They're like, "It's too
Pastor Jeff:
13:41-13:42
far."
Mark Ort:
13:43-13:46
But they do have a lot of inconsistencies when they speak to you.
Mark Ort:
13:46-13:47
Oh yeah, they do.
Pastor Jeff:
13:48-13:48
They do.
Mark Ort:
13:49-13:52
But we go back to the Bible for our answers.
Mark Ort:
13:52-13:52
Amen.
Mark Ort:
13:52-13:53
The Bible
Pastor Jeff:
13:53-13:54
has the answers, that's right.
Mark Ort:
13:55-13:56
Okay, next question, Jeff.
Mark Ort:
13:59-14:03
Calvinism, Arminianism, or Molinism, what is Harvest's position on these views?
Mark Ort:
14:04-14:09
Maybe you can give us a brief overview of what each one is and what our position is.
Mark Ort:
14:10-14:10
I don't know.
Mark Ort:
14:11-14:11
Next question.
Pastor Jeff:
14:12-14:13
All right, all right.
Pastor Jeff:
14:14-14:16
I'm gonna give a general overview of this.
Pastor Jeff:
14:17-14:31
For those of you that maybe are unfamiliar, I'm gonna make some generalizations and I hope you understand in the context of what we're doing here why I'm overgeneralizing and maybe simplifying the issue 'cause I know some of you probably really spend a lot of time studying this.
Pastor Jeff:
14:32-14:40
And some of you might be hearing this for the first time, so it's hard to meet everybody, but here's the general overview.
Pastor Jeff:
14:41-14:54
The Calvinist view is mainly leaning on God sovereignly chooses you for salvation, you know, the elect, predestination, leaning heavily on that view.
Pastor Jeff:
14:54-15:00
The Arminian view leans more towards the man has the power to choose.
Pastor Jeff:
15:01-15:03
It's an emphasis on free will.
Pastor Jeff:
15:04-15:07
But Molinism, I had to do a little studying and had a pastor friend help me with this.
Pastor Jeff:
15:08-15:13
That is from a 16th century theologian, Louis de Molina.
Pastor Jeff:
15:15-15:24
It was an attempt to reconcile God's sovereignty and election and man's free will and salvation.
Pastor Jeff:
15:25-15:31
Now this is hard to understand and it's even harder to explain, but we're gonna give it a try, all right?
Pastor Jeff:
15:33-15:42
Basically, in Molinism, it's the belief that God knows what a person or a group of people will choose in any circumstance.
Pastor Jeff:
15:43-15:46
He knows what you'll choose.
Pastor Jeff:
15:46-15:51
Like if you were going to get ice cream after church, that's a terrible example.
Pastor Jeff:
15:51-15:52
Maybe we would go get ice cream.
Pastor Jeff:
15:53-15:53
Not
Mark Ort:
15:53-15:53
today, man.
Mark Ort:
15:53-15:53
It's
Pastor Jeff:
15:53-15:55
like negative 17 out.
Pastor Jeff:
15:55-15:55
You know what sounds good?
Pastor Jeff:
15:56-15:57
Ice cream.
Pastor Jeff:
15:57-15:58
Maybe we'll go swimming.
Pastor Jeff:
16:01-16:03
Sorry, I should have thought this out more.
Pastor Jeff:
16:04-16:10
Okay, so you're going to get ice cream after church since we've already, you know, that horse is out of the barn.
Pastor Jeff:
16:10-16:14
And God knows that you're gonna pick chocolate.
Pastor Jeff:
16:14-16:14
He just knows.
Pastor Jeff:
16:15-16:16
He knows.
Pastor Jeff:
16:16-16:33
Now, God didn't make that choice for you, but in God's omniscience, in order for God's sovereign purposes to be established, you choosing chocolate ice cream is part of God's plan.
Pastor Jeff:
16:34-16:36
Now, he didn't make you choose that.
Pastor Jeff:
16:37-16:42
You could have chosen vanilla or cookie dough or cookies and cream or whatever.
Pastor Jeff:
16:43-16:50
He didn't make you choose that, but according to God's purposes, you needed to choose chocolate.
Pastor Jeff:
16:50-16:57
So, he knows in any hypothetical situation what you are going to choose.
Pastor Jeff:
16:57-17:01
It's basically God is sovereign somehow in and through his omniscience.
Pastor Jeff:
17:01-17:10
And it's much more complicated than that silly example, but that's the gist of it is trying to reconcile the two.
Pastor Jeff:
17:10-17:13
So, all that said, what's Harvest's position?
Pastor Jeff:
17:13-17:20
Well, the reason the subject is hotly debated is because the Bible teaches both.
Pastor Jeff:
17:21-17:21
Right?
Pastor Jeff:
17:23-17:27
For example, I'm just gonna give you, write these scriptures down if you want, you can check these.
Pastor Jeff:
17:27-17:30
Do you remember Moses in Deuteronomy chapter 30, verse 19?
Pastor Jeff:
17:30-17:32
He said, "I set before you life and death.
Pastor Jeff:
17:34-17:36
"Choose life." You have to make a choice.
Pastor Jeff:
17:36-17:38
Remember Joshua, Joshua 24, 15.
Pastor Jeff:
17:39-17:42
"Choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, "but," how's the rest of that go?
Pastor Jeff:
17:43-18:01
"As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord." Joshua said, "You gotta make a choice." Jesus said, "Enter through the narrow gate, "because there is a wide gate that leads to destruction, "and those on it are many, and there's a narrow gate "that leads to eternal life, and those on it are few." Jesus was giving the choice.
Pastor Jeff:
18:01-18:05
What about Paul in 2 Corinthians 5, verse 20?
Pastor Jeff:
18:06-18:22
He's like, "I am begging you to receive Christ." Paul wasn't like, "Eh, if they're gonna receive Christ, "it's probably because they're elect." He's like, "I am begging you to receive Christ." So there's the whole choice thing, but then you can go back through.
Pastor Jeff:
18:23-18:25
Some of the same people talked about God choosing you, right?
Pastor Jeff:
18:26-18:29
John 6, 37, Jesus talked about that, among other places.
Pastor Jeff:
18:30-18:37
God says, "I chose you." Paul in Ephesians 1, 11, actually all of Ephesians 1 talking about election and predestination.
Pastor Jeff:
18:38-18:44
The Bible teaches both, and the reason we get hung up is people wanna go to the extremes on both.
Pastor Jeff:
18:44-18:52
the extreme Calvinist side, says it doesn't matter what we choose because God's got his mind made up and I'll just do whatever because it doesn't matter.
Pastor Jeff:
18:52-18:53
It's very fatalistic.
Pastor Jeff:
18:54-18:56
But then we swing too far on the other side, don't we, Darla?
Pastor Jeff:
18:56-19:16
And it's just like, we make all the choices and it's sort of almost like God's at my mercy, that God's hoping that I make the right choices and God's up in heaven like, oh, I'm watching Margie right now and I'm watching her life and I sure hope that she makes the right choices but the power is basically on you.
Pastor Jeff:
19:18-19:20
And I don't think either of those are right.
Pastor Jeff:
19:21-19:25
The Bible teaches both in a way that makes sense to God.
Pastor Jeff:
19:26-19:28
And it's sort of like the Trinity.
Pastor Jeff:
19:29-19:35
I can't explain the Trinity, but I believe that God the Father is God, God the Son is God, God the Holy Spirit is God.
Pastor Jeff:
19:36-19:38
I can believe that without explaining it.
Pastor Jeff:
19:38-19:39
And it's the same with this.
Pastor Jeff:
19:39-19:40
I can believe it without explaining it.
Pastor Jeff:
19:41-19:44
There are some things about God that don't make human sense.
Pastor Jeff:
19:44-19:49
He is omniscient, he is omnipotent, he is sovereign, he lives outside of time and space.
Pastor Jeff:
19:50-19:59
And I like to sum it up with one simple statement that we say here often at Harvest, is that God is God and I am not, right?
Pastor Jeff:
19:59-20:09
I have as much chance of understanding God as a fruit fly can understand an iPhone, honestly.
Mark Ort:
20:09-20:11
I don't understand those iPhones very well.
Mark Ort:
20:11-20:11
I don't either.
20:12-20:13
(audience laughing)
20:13-20:14
I
Pastor Jeff:
20:14-20:14
don't either.
Pastor Jeff:
20:14-20:38
And I like to think I'm a little smarter than a fruit fly, but I mean, a fruit fly can look at this and maybe recognize it as an object or something, but could it ever grasp the depth that, you know, you can explore all the information in the world and make phone calls and time Q&A day and all the things you can do with this thing.
Pastor Jeff:
20:38-20:42
It's so much deeper than the fruit fly just viewing it as this thing.
Pastor Jeff:
20:42-20:48
So Deuteronomy 29, 29, one of my favorite verses in the Bible says the secret things belong to the Lord.
Pastor Jeff:
20:48-20:59
There are things about God, Moses was like, "I don't understand God, I speak to God face to face "and I don't understand Him." The rest of that verse says that God has revealed some things that He wants us and our children to know about Him.
Pastor Jeff:
21:00-21:04
So let's just work on that and be okay with the fact that there's things about God that we don't understand.
Mark Ort:
21:06-21:07
Very good, thank you Jeff.
Mark Ort:
21:08-21:10
Do we wanna take a question from the congregation?
Mark Ort:
21:11-21:11
Do we?
Pastor Jeff:
21:11-21:13
Does anybody have a question on the spot?
Pastor Jeff:
21:15-21:16
Sherry will pass out.
Pastor Jeff:
21:16-21:17
Where's Sherry?
Pastor Jeff:
21:17-21:18
Oh, there you are, Sherry.
Pastor Jeff:
21:18-21:22
Would you take a microphone over to, look, she's got a microphone already.
Pastor Jeff:
21:22-21:24
Your question, and there's an easy answer for that.
Pastor Jeff:
21:24-21:26
It's because that's what people wanna hear.
Pastor Jeff:
21:27-21:34
Yeah, the Bible says the time's gonna come when people heap up for themselves teachers that they have itching ears, and they have a pastor that's gonna scratch that.
Pastor Jeff:
21:35-21:49
And we live in a day that tolerance is elevated above truth, to say, "Look, just love, man, just love, just love." And I'm gonna be talking about this next week, Mike, but that's why I'm committed to expository preaching, because it forces me to preach things I wouldn't choose.
Pastor Jeff:
21:50-21:55
If I was just to choose, it'd be like, "Hey, let's talk about grace this week, "and guess what we're gonna talk about next week?
Pastor Jeff:
21:55-21:55
"Mercy.
Pastor Jeff:
21:56-21:57
"Guess what we're gonna talk about the week after that?
Pastor Jeff:
21:57-21:57
"Love.
Pastor Jeff:
21:58-21:59
"Then the week after that, we're gonna talk about grace.
Pastor Jeff:
21:59-22:14
"Then we're gonna talk about how awesome God's love is." And that's what I would want to choose to talk about, But this year on the preaching calendar, we're doing a whole series on NAMM, and the whole series is about God's judgment.
Pastor Jeff:
22:15-22:17
I am not looking forward to that series, I'll be honest with you.
Pastor Jeff:
22:18-22:19
I'm not looking forward to it.
Pastor Jeff:
22:20-22:27
There's nothing thrilling to me about preaching God's wrath, but I have to preach it because I made a commitment.
Pastor Jeff:
22:27-22:36
Remember Acts 20, Paul to the Ephesian elders, "I did not cease to declare to you the whole counsel of God." That's why I'm committed to expository preaching.
Pastor Jeff:
22:36-22:42
I don't sit in my office and say, "What do I think about preaching this week?" I prepare a calendar a year at a time, ahead of time.
Pastor Jeff:
22:43-22:47
The elders approve it, but going through the scripture, you guys have been with us.
Pastor Jeff:
22:48-22:49
We've been walking through Acts.
Pastor Jeff:
22:49-22:50
You guys have been with us a long time.
Pastor Jeff:
22:50-22:54
We have walked through Philippians and Colossians and Mark.
Pastor Jeff:
22:54-22:59
And that's why we do that, is because I don't wanna shy away from anything.
Pastor Jeff:
22:59-23:00
We don't talk about that.
Pastor Jeff:
23:00-23:03
We talk about what God's word wants us to talk about.
Pastor Jeff:
23:03-23:06
That's what we talk about, but I think that's why, Mike.
Pastor Jeff:
23:06-23:10
I think people preach that because that's what people want to hear.
Pastor Jeff:
23:11-23:16
I heard that, I had a conversation with a pastor friend last week, was talking about Oprah.
Pastor Jeff:
23:17-23:19
And I said, "I'll be honest with you, "I don't get Oprah's appeal.
Pastor Jeff:
23:20-23:25
"I don't get why people just worship Oprah." And he said, "It's because she tells everybody "what they want to hear."
Mark Ort:
23:25-23:26
And she gives stuff away.
Pastor Jeff:
23:26-23:27
And she gives stuff away.
Pastor Jeff:
23:29-23:29
True.
Pastor Jeff:
23:31-23:33
I think that's the answer to
23:33-23:33
that.
Mark Ort:
23:35-23:36
That's a really good question.
Mark Ort:
23:36-23:38
Is there another question before we move on to the next one?
Pastor Jeff:
23:40-23:41
Any other questions?
Pastor Jeff:
23:43-23:47
All right, why don't we move on to, you have more time maybe, well, you got 10 minutes and 20 seconds.
Mark Ort:
23:49-24:03
Can you, Jeff, further explain how God mourns and is saddened with us when tragedy occurs in our lives and how he may not command for these things to happen, but allows it because of the sinful world we live in.
Pastor Jeff:
24:04-24:07
Right, and again, both are true.
Pastor Jeff:
24:07-24:12
God is sovereign, but we also are affected by our own choices.
Pastor Jeff:
24:13-24:23
And God allows things to happen, even tragic things, things that are part of living in a fallen and cursed world.
Pastor Jeff:
24:24-24:33
But I think the heart of this question, if I'm understanding it right, is if God knows everything that's going to happen, why would he still mourn?
Pastor Jeff:
24:35-24:39
And I think that's getting to the heart of something that's very important for us to understand about God.
Pastor Jeff:
24:40-24:42
And it's this, God feels.
Pastor Jeff:
24:43-24:48
And just because God knows, doesn't mean that God doesn't feel.
Pastor Jeff:
24:49-24:50
Let me give you a couple examples.
Pastor Jeff:
24:50-24:52
I'll give you a personal one first.
Pastor Jeff:
24:53-25:02
Several years ago when I was serving in a different church, I had a staff person tell me, "Hey, I met this guy online.
Pastor Jeff:
25:03-25:06
"We've been chatting online for about a month, "and we actually met each other twice.
Pastor Jeff:
25:07-25:11
"He lives near Baltimore, Maryland, "and we're gonna get married.
Pastor Jeff:
25:12-25:18
"What do you think?" And I said, "I think that's a terrible decision." I said, "You have a little girl.
Pastor Jeff:
25:19-25:31
"You don't know this guy." "I do know this guy!" I said, "You don't know this guy." I said, "Here's what I recommend." He moves up, gets an apartment, gets a job in the area, and you spend some time getting to know him.
Pastor Jeff:
25:32-25:34
I said, you need to see how this guy interacts with your little girl.
Pastor Jeff:
25:34-25:35
I said, you're just a kid.
Pastor Jeff:
25:37-25:46
And we were blasted about, you know, I don't have the Holy Spirit, and our church doesn't have the Holy Spirit, and we were just, we were flamed.
Pastor Jeff:
25:46-25:57
Like, we were the apostate church, and we didn't know what we were talking about, and she ran off and she got married.
Pastor Jeff:
25:59-26:01
And two weeks later, he left her, gone.
Pastor Jeff:
26:04-26:06
And it was like a punch in the gut to me.
Pastor Jeff:
26:06-26:19
I'm like, I still felt, I felt so badly for her in this situation because she had such hopes that this was going to be Prince Charming that was going to come in and deliver her.
Pastor Jeff:
26:21-26:25
And I knew that was gonna happen, but that hurt.
Pastor Jeff:
26:26-26:27
Like, come on.
Pastor Jeff:
26:28-26:33
So do you see, it wasn't like the guy left her, and I'm like, well, I knew that was gonna happen.
Pastor Jeff:
26:33-26:36
Like, sorry about her luck.
Pastor Jeff:
26:36-26:37
That's a shot in the gut.
Pastor Jeff:
26:37-26:48
Like, because this is still a real human being and a daughter with high expectations and the worst kind of hurt.
Pastor Jeff:
26:50-26:52
among the worst kind of hurt that a person can experience.
Pastor Jeff:
26:54-26:58
So that's a personal example, but I think an even better example is Jesus' example, right?
Pastor Jeff:
27:00-27:02
You look at John 11.
Pastor Jeff:
27:03-27:09
Remember the story, Lazarus died, and Jesus was taking his sweet old time getting there on purpose?
Pastor Jeff:
27:10-27:11
And you know the story.
Pastor Jeff:
27:11-27:14
Did Jesus know that he was going to resurrect Lazarus?
Pastor Jeff:
27:14-27:15
Did he know that?
Pastor Jeff:
27:15-27:16
Yeah, he did, right, Rich?
Pastor Jeff:
27:16-27:18
He knew he was gonna resurrect Lazarus.
Pastor Jeff:
27:19-27:23
And he knew it was gonna be an opportunity to teach and he was the resurrection and the life.
Pastor Jeff:
27:24-27:28
But you look at John 11, 35, shortest verse in the Bible, what does it say?
Pastor Jeff:
27:28-27:29
Jesus wept.
Pastor Jeff:
27:30-27:36
Jesus was still overcome with emotion, human emotion, even though he knew.
Pastor Jeff:
27:36-27:40
If there was ever anybody that didn't need to weep, you would think it'd be Jesus.
Pastor Jeff:
27:40-27:42
I know everything's gonna happen, I'm the Alpha and the Omega.
Pastor Jeff:
27:43-27:45
I know how this whole thing is gonna shake out.
Pastor Jeff:
27:46-27:47
Even knowing all that though, he felt.
Pastor Jeff:
27:48-27:55
And I think that's a beautiful thing about God, is he feels God's not up in heaven going, turn or burn, I don't care.
Pastor Jeff:
27:55-27:57
Get right or get left, it doesn't make a difference to me.
Pastor Jeff:
27:58-28:00
God feels and he cares.
Pastor Jeff:
28:00-28:03
And we see that in the incarnation.
Pastor Jeff:
28:03-28:06
I think that's one of the most beautiful things about the incarnation.
Pastor Jeff:
28:06-28:08
We see a God who knows and feels and cares.
Mark Ort:
28:10-28:11
Thanks for that, Jeff.
Mark Ort:
28:12-28:14
The next question, I'm hoping to learn something here.
Mark Ort:
28:15-28:16
This is a great question.
Mark Ort:
28:17-28:22
Describe the differences between death, Sheol, Hades, and the Lake of Fire.
Mark Ort:
28:23-28:28
What does Revelation 20.14 mean when it says that death and Hades were thrown into the Lake of Fire?
Pastor Jeff:
28:29-28:30
Oh, this is a really good question.
Pastor Jeff:
28:30-28:32
All right, if you're taking notes, you want to jot some things down quickly.
Pastor Jeff:
28:33-28:34
Death just means separation.
Pastor Jeff:
28:35-28:38
We think of physical death, that's separation of body from spirit.
Pastor Jeff:
28:39-28:43
But it also describes the spiritual state of man, right?
Pastor Jeff:
28:43-28:46
that by nature we are separated from God.
Pastor Jeff:
28:47-29:00
That's why I remind you in the Garden of Eden, you remember God told Adam not to eat off the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, because he said, "When you eat off of it," the Hebrew is literally dying, you will die.
Pastor Jeff:
29:01-29:04
It's going to begin a process that's going to end in a finish line.
Pastor Jeff:
29:05-29:07
That's why we're all wearing out.
Pastor Jeff:
29:08-29:19
That's why we're all getting old and out of shape and gray hair, and that's why that's happening, is because dying, you will die.
Pastor Jeff:
29:19-29:21
But death is separation.
Pastor Jeff:
29:22-29:25
Like I said, spiritual, we're separated from God because of sin.
Pastor Jeff:
29:25-29:26
What's Sheol?
Pastor Jeff:
29:27-29:32
In the Old Testament, I'm gonna read my notes here, so make sure I get the wording right here.
Pastor Jeff:
29:32-29:36
In the Old Testament, Sheol specifically was just like the grave.
Pastor Jeff:
29:37-29:40
And it was very mysterious in the Old Testament.
Pastor Jeff:
29:40-29:50
It was the idea of when somebody dies, we know that they still exist somewhere, but they are in what lies beyond.
Pastor Jeff:
29:50-29:52
And that was sort of a catch-all term, sheol.
Pastor Jeff:
29:52-29:54
It's the grave.
Pastor Jeff:
29:54-29:55
He's gone.
Pastor Jeff:
29:55-29:56
He went to another place.
Pastor Jeff:
29:58-30:03
It was a mystery because they didn't have the fuller revelation that we possess.
Pastor Jeff:
30:04-30:08
Some translations of the Bible, sheol is translated hell, and that's a terrible translation.
Pastor Jeff:
30:08-30:10
Sheol did not mean hell.
Pastor Jeff:
30:11-30:13
You see, we have the whole Bible.
Pastor Jeff:
30:13-30:18
We have Jesus and Paul and John who told us more about what happens beyond.
Pastor Jeff:
30:19-30:20
They didn't have that.
Pastor Jeff:
30:20-30:22
It's like somebody dies and they go somewhere.
Pastor Jeff:
30:23-30:25
And that was what Sheol is.
Pastor Jeff:
30:26-30:26
What's Hades?
Pastor Jeff:
30:28-30:30
Hades was also the grave.
Pastor Jeff:
30:30-30:33
It was the unseen world, like Acts 2.31.
Pastor Jeff:
30:34-30:38
But sometimes in the New Testament, it refers to a place of torment.
Pastor Jeff:
30:38-30:42
like Matthew 11.23 and Luke 16.23.
Pastor Jeff:
30:44-30:49
It's the intermediate state between death and resurrection.
Pastor Jeff:
30:49-31:00
What I mean is the Bible in Revelation talks about new heavens, new earth, talks about lake of fire, we'll get to that in a second, but something happens in between the consummation of all things.
Pastor Jeff:
31:01-31:14
And if you read Luke, just jot this reference down, Luke 16, verses 19 through 23, In fact, I'm going to read that real quick because this is so important for us to not gloss over.
Pastor Jeff:
31:15-31:32
There was a rich man, this is Jesus speaking, there was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen who feasted sumptuously every day and at his gate was laid a poor man named Lazarus covered with sores who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man's table more even the dogs came and licked his sores.
Pastor Jeff:
31:32-31:37
The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side.
Pastor Jeff:
31:37-31:38
That's heaven, right?
Pastor Jeff:
31:38-31:39
he was next to Abraham.
Pastor Jeff:
31:40-31:58
It says, "The rich man also died and was buried, "and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes "and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side." So according to Jesus, there is a place of torment that exists before the final lake of fire.
Pastor Jeff:
31:59-32:05
And when you look at Hades in the New Testament, like I said, sometimes it's a translated grave.
Pastor Jeff:
32:05-32:09
Like in 1 Corinthians 15, 55, You gotta sort of take it in its context.
Pastor Jeff:
32:10-32:11
Context here is very obvious, right?
Pastor Jeff:
32:11-32:13
Context in 1 Corinthians 15, very obvious.
Pastor Jeff:
32:14-32:20
So, but typically it means the grave, sometimes with the connotation of the place of suffering.
Pastor Jeff:
32:21-32:27
Usually in the New Testament, by the way, Hades is translated 11 times in the New Testament.
Pastor Jeff:
32:29-32:36
12 times though in the New Testament, there's a place of future torment that is referred to as Gehenna.
Pastor Jeff:
32:37-32:49
And that's the Valley of Hinnom, that's south of Jerusalem, that's where they took all the filth and the dead animals and they burn it, it was a place of constant burning and that was often used as the picture to describe hell.
Pastor Jeff:
32:49-32:52
So Lake of Fire, what's the Lake of Fire?
Pastor Jeff:
32:52-32:56
That is Revelation chapter 20, the Bible calls that a second death.
Pastor Jeff:
32:56-32:59
This is a place that God prepared for the devil and his angels.
Pastor Jeff:
33:00-33:14
That everyone who has rejected God's grace, everyone who has rejected the love and mercy of Jesus Christ, says, you know what, God, I don't need your salvation, I don't need the eternal life, I don't need the reconciliation you purchased for me at the cost of your own blood, at the cost of your own son, I don't want it.
Pastor Jeff:
33:15-33:22
God says, "Well, then you don't have to have it." And people will choose to go to the Lake of Fire.
Pastor Jeff:
33:23-33:24
It's a place of eternal destruction.
Pastor Jeff:
33:26-33:31
So John, so this question is, what does it mean that death and Hades were thrown into the Lake of Fire?
Pastor Jeff:
33:33-33:39
In the book of Revelation, John saw the end of the world sort of being played out.
Pastor Jeff:
33:41-33:42
And there's the timer.
Mark Ort:
33:43-33:44
Well, that went fast.
Pastor Jeff:
33:45-33:50
Okay, so John, when you read Revelation, John sees the end of the world sort of being played out.
Pastor Jeff:
33:52-33:57
Maybe he was transported in time and literally watching it unfold.
Pastor Jeff:
33:59-34:01
I don't know, but he sees a lot of symbols.
Pastor Jeff:
34:02-34:08
And John does his best, under inspiration of the Holy Spirit obviously, to describe what he's seeing.
Pastor Jeff:
34:08-34:17
And somehow, somehow he saw death and Hades being thrown into the lake of fire.
Pastor Jeff:
34:17-34:35
So there was some sort of embodiment, some sort of physical representation of death and Hades that John recognized it as being such. What that looked like I have no idea, but John was sure that's what it was, otherwise he wouldn't have said that.
Pastor Jeff:
34:35-35:12
The question is, what does that mean? That's the beautiful thing. It means that there's never again going to be death. Because I've had people ask me, "What if I'm in heaven for like eight trillion years and then I sin or I decide to turn against God?" That is not going to happen, because death and sin and everything that is not of God, not seeking to glorify God, all of that is going to be thrown into the lake of fire.
Pastor Jeff:
35:13-35:19
So death is going to be like eternally history at some point.
Pastor Jeff:
35:20-35:21
It's not going to be an issue.
35:22-35:22
Well,
Mark Ort:
35:22-35:24
listen, we have two more questions.
Mark Ort:
35:25-35:28
The next to the last question, can you answer on the blog?
Mark Ort:
35:29-35:31
Yeah, I'll do the next to the last question on the blog.
Mark Ort:
35:32-35:37
We have a last question here that we want to get to, and it is this.
Mark Ort:
35:38-35:44
Being in high school, I am constantly surrounded by the "do what you think is right" mentality.
Mark Ort:
35:45-35:49
That being said, how can I be confident in what the Bible says is right or wrong?
Pastor Jeff:
35:50-35:51
That is a really good question.
Pastor Jeff:
35:51-35:56
And the do what you think is right mentality, we thought of the same verse, didn't we?
Pastor Jeff:
35:57-36:11
If you read the book of Judges in the Bible, the very last verse, and it's mentioned one other time earlier, but the very last verse in the book of Judges is in those days, there was no king in Israel, and everyone did what was right in his own eyes.
Pastor Jeff:
36:12-36:15
And that's how the Bible described the times of the Judges.
Pastor Jeff:
36:16-36:24
People were like, "Yeah, I'll just do what I think is right." If you've ever read the book of Judges, it is crazy the things that people were doing.
Pastor Jeff:
36:24-36:33
It was just, and not just like us normal people, like the leaders of Israel were doing crazy things, right?
Pastor Jeff:
36:35-36:38
And the question is, who determines what is right and wrong?
Pastor Jeff:
36:39-36:39
That's the question.
Pastor Jeff:
36:40-36:43
And the answer, obviously, in this is, oh, you do, right?
Pastor Jeff:
36:43-36:45
Do what you think is right.
Pastor Jeff:
36:46-36:48
But there's a big problem with that.
Pastor Jeff:
36:49-36:50
Have you ever been mistaken?
Pastor Jeff:
36:51-36:52
Have you ever been mistaken?
Mark Ort:
36:52-36:53
All the time, man.
Pastor Jeff:
36:53-36:54
All the...
Pastor Jeff:
36:54-36:54
Me too.
Pastor Jeff:
36:55-36:56
All the time.
Pastor Jeff:
36:56-37:01
So how can I be the ultimate authority on what's right and what's wrong?
Pastor Jeff:
37:02-37:04
I mean, my family will tell you I make mistakes daily.
Pastor Jeff:
37:05-37:12
So how am I some kind of a standard on what is morally right or wrong?
Pastor Jeff:
37:14-37:21
You know, here's a scenario for what if what I think is right is harmful to somebody else?
Pastor Jeff:
37:22-37:24
Like for example, what if I say, "You know what I think is right?
Pastor Jeff:
37:25-37:28
I think if somebody disagrees with me, I should just smack them in the mouth.
Pastor Jeff:
37:29-37:34
I think that's right." Can you come along and say, "Well, that's not right." Well, I think it's right.
Pastor Jeff:
37:34-37:35
Who are you to tell me that's not right?
Pastor Jeff:
37:36-37:38
Obviously, I can't do that.
Pastor Jeff:
37:38-37:39
Well, why can't I do that?
Pastor Jeff:
37:40-37:41
I think it's right.
Pastor Jeff:
37:41-37:43
Do you see the problem with this mentality now?
Pastor Jeff:
37:44-37:48
What you think is right might be harmful to someone else or unknowingly harmful to yourself.
Pastor Jeff:
37:50-37:59
I had a lady tell me one time, "God confirmed with me I think it's okay to smoke." I'm like, "Well, I don't think God told you that." All right?
Pastor Jeff:
37:59-38:00
And look, if you smoke, I'm not condemning you.
Pastor Jeff:
38:00-38:07
I'm just saying that I don't really believe that God sent an angel or somebody to her to smoke him if you got him.
Pastor Jeff:
38:08-38:15
I don't think that, I just, I don't think that, well, I'm not condemning people to smoke.
Pastor Jeff:
38:15-38:18
I'm just saying, don't tell me that God told you to do it.
Pastor Jeff:
38:19-38:20
All right?
Pastor Jeff:
38:21-38:24
Morality can only come from an objective source.
Pastor Jeff:
38:25-38:33
And God's word is that objective source, and God himself is the only ground for morality.
Mark Ort:
38:33-38:35
So you're saying that the Bible then is our standard.
Pastor Jeff:
38:37-38:38
The Bible has to be our standard.
Pastor Jeff:
38:39-38:54
If the Bible's not our standard, and we become, you know, where morality is subjective, there again we're getting into, well, what I think is right and what you think are right might be totally opposite, we're gonna be at odds with each other, and who determines?
Pastor Jeff:
38:54-38:55
Only God.
Pastor Jeff:
38:57-39:04
And, you know, getting deeper on the subject, there's no such thing as what's good and evil without God's word, right?
Pastor Jeff:
39:05-39:06
God establishes morality.
Pastor Jeff:
39:07-39:09
So the question is, well, how can I be confident in his word?
Pastor Jeff:
39:10-39:11
Well, there's two things.
Pastor Jeff:
39:11-39:15
First of all, objectively, I would say apologetics.
Pastor Jeff:
39:15-39:16
Study the reliability of the word.
Pastor Jeff:
39:17-39:23
I know a guy recently, I'm a huge fan of this guy, but he taught an apologetics course right here in this room.
Pastor Jeff:
39:24-39:30
And get familiar with that material if you're looking at how can I be confident in the word of God.
Pastor Jeff:
39:31-39:34
But do you know there's a subjective test for the word of God?
Pastor Jeff:
39:34-39:38
Turn in your Bibles or jot the reference down, I'll read it for you.
Pastor Jeff:
39:38-39:39
John 7, 17.
Pastor Jeff:
39:41-39:42
I want you to listen to this very closely.
Pastor Jeff:
39:42-39:45
This is a subjective test of the word of God.
Pastor Jeff:
39:46-40:25
Jesus said, "If anyone's will is to do God's will, "he will know whether the teaching is from God "or whether I am speaking on my own authority." Jesus said, "The person who, I wanna know God, and I wanna live for God, and I wanna incorporate God's word into my life, when that person does that, there's going to be a self-authentication of God's word in their lives." It's very subjective, obviously, but you're gonna know, yeah, this is of God, absolutely.
Pastor Jeff:
40:25-41:03
But the person that's like, nobody tells me what to do, I don't care what the Bible says, they're never gonna have subjective authentication of God's Word in their life, because they've set their heart against it. Jesus is the guy that's like, "I'm not setting my heart against it. I'm going after it. That guy's gonna know, or that girl is gonna know." So that's a great segue, actually. Next week we are going to be starting a four-part series called Harvest DNA. The question we'll be answering, exploring, is what is the genetic makeup of the church that we are striving to be.
Pastor Jeff:
41:05-41:07
And hint, they're written on the wall in the back.
Pastor Jeff:
41:08-41:12
But first up is proclaiming the authority of God's Word without apology.
Pastor Jeff:
41:12-41:23
That's what we're going to be talking about next week, so whoever answered that question, come ready to take notes, have your pencil sharpened, all that good stuff, because we're going to be talking about the authority of God's Word next week.
Pastor Jeff:
41:24-41:24
So.
Pastor Jeff:
41:25-41:26
Good.
Mark Ort:
41:26-41:27
It was a good morning, Jeff.
Pastor Jeff:
41:27-41:28
It was a good morning.
Pastor Jeff:
41:28-41:32
There was one other question I was really hoping we could answer verbally, but we are out of time.
Pastor Jeff:
41:32-41:38
I will put it on the blog because we're certainly not dodging it, but we certainly want to be sensitive to people's time as well.
Pastor Jeff:
41:39-41:39
Well,
Mark Ort:
41:39-41:41
there's one other question actually that you cannot dodge.
Mark Ort:
41:41-41:43
I have one more question.
Pastor Jeff:
41:43-41:43
All right.
Pastor Jeff:
41:43-41:43
Go ahead.
Pastor Jeff:
41:43-41:44
I have
Mark Ort:
41:44-41:45
to have Erin come on up here just for a second.
Mark Ort:
41:46-41:47
I'm going to put Erin on the spot.
Mark Ort:
41:47-41:48
Oh, man.
Mark Ort:
41:49-41:50
It's going to be a long day at the Miller House.
Mark Ort:
41:50-41:51
You can stand up.
Mark Ort:
41:52-41:59
we want to know as a congregation if you guys realize and understand how much you're loved and appreciated.
Mark Ort:
42:00-42:07
We had a number of people participate in a gift for you guys and we wanted to present it to you.
Pastor Jeff:
42:08-42:09
Well, thank you very much.
Pastor Jeff:
42:09-42:11
Is this for 2017 or 2018?
Mark Ort:
42:13-42:14
This is for...
Mark Ort:
42:14-42:15
(audience laughing)
Mark Ort:
42:16-42:20
Well, let me ask you guys, should we have them open it now?
Mark Ort:
42:21-42:21
Okay.
Small Group Questions (Whole Group):
Review the questions submitted above. Discuss any of these that stuck out to you, or that maybe your group finds particularly interesting.
Breakout Questions:
Pray for one another for a Christ-seeking, Christ-exalting New Year!
