Jesus In The Clutch

Introduction:

How Do I Know Jesus Will Come Through In The Clutch?

1. Because He's My authority . (1 Pet 5:6)
2. Because He Cares . (1 Pet 5:7)
3. Because He's Stronger than my opponent . (1 Pet 5:8-9)

   Genesis 49:8-10 - "Judah is a lion's cub; from the prey, my son, you have gone up. He stooped down; he crouched as a lion and as a lioness; who dares rouse him? The scepter shall not depart from Judah, nor the ruler's staff from between his feet, until tribute comes to him; and to him shall be the obedience of the peoples."

Revelation 5:5 - And one of the elders said to me, "Weep no more; behold the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has conquered, so that he can open the scrolls and its seven seals."

Revelation 20:10 - "and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."

4. Because He Always sees it through . (1 Pet 5:10-11)

Sermon Notes (PDF): BLANK
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• Audio Transcript

  00:00-00:06

  Well, good morning. I'm very, very thankful to be up here in front of you all and to have this opportunity.

  00:07-00:11

  Before I start, let me just start with a word of prayer, and then we'll get going this morning.

  00:14-00:20

  Heavenly Father, thank you for what you've been doing in my life, God, to lead me up to this moment.

  00:20-00:23

  God, I thank you that you have led me through this message.

  00:23-00:31

  Lord, I thank you for another opportunity to gather together here today as a church and to hear your word, hear your truth.

  00:32-00:34

  God, I pray that we would hear these things from your word.

  00:36-00:43

  We would apply it directly to our lives and that we would grow closer to you and stronger in our walk with you as well.

  00:44-00:47

  I lift all of these things up in Jesus's name, amen.

  00:50-00:52

  So open up your Bibles with me please to 1 Peter.

  00:53-00:54

  Be in chapter five.

  00:55-00:58

  We'll be going through verses six through 11.

  01:01-01:10

  And a few months ago, my wife, Lexi, and I, we went for a walk, or actually a run, before coming here to church on a Sunday morning.

  01:12-01:16

  Already a weird day, unusual day, because I was up any earlier than I had to be on a weekend.

  01:16-01:17

  Never happens.

  01:18-01:24

  So we came back from this run, and we realized that there was a puddle on the kitchen floor.

  01:25-01:26

  Okay, that's weird.

  01:26-01:27

  It was underneath the dishwasher.

  01:28-01:34

  Maybe it wasn't all that weird because we had had a leak underneath our sink for the last couple of days.

  01:36-01:48

  So we let our landlord, who just happens to be my father-in-law, Joe, he's here today, we let him know the issue and he was set to bring a plumber out in the next coming days, maybe even that next day.

  01:49-01:55

  We thought, you know what, why don't we just shut the water off to the dishwasher so we don't have a puddle every day.

  01:55-02:29

  Okay, so here I go underneath our sink having absolutely no idea what I was doing. Here I come, this is my plumber stance by the way, I get underneath here, open up the door, find a little lever, go to pull it, gives a little bit of resistance, but then it turns. Get up, I don't know what I was really expecting in this moment but thought, "You know what? That can't be it. It's too easy. It's the first lever I saw.

  02:29-02:33

  I pulled it and nothing happened." So there must be another one underneath there, right?

  02:34-02:46

  I go again back underneath the sink. There's a second lever. Looks just like the first one, only it's further back this time. I go to pull that one and it gives a lot of resistance.

  02:48-03:13

  But I think to myself, "Well, it's got to be it. I mean, this is the lever." So I pull on it more, pull on it more, and pull on it more, and then all of a sudden, bang. My hands just drop straight to the ground, and there is a gigantic hole behind our sink, and water is rushing out of it like a waterfall. I mean, straight fire hose.

  03:15-03:20

  And the sound of this water coming out of the wall still haunts me to this day.

  03:22-03:26

  So it's a complete disaster and I'm now in scramble mode.

  03:26-03:29

  First thing I do is I call up my father-in-law, "Where are you?

  03:29-03:30

  Help!

  03:31-03:37

  How do I shut the water off?" And my next question was, "Where are you?

  03:37-03:40

  Can you please help me?" He was 25 minutes away.

  03:41-03:46

  It was gonna be a long shot. He's trying to just talk me through how to shut the water off. I'm running downstairs.

  03:47-04:03

  I'm checking in the garage. Meanwhile, Lexi's upstairs and having no clue what else to do is just underneath the sink with a bucket and just pouring it back into the sink because we've got nothing else left to do. We are on the deck of the Titanic.

  04:05-04:21

  And I remember at one point opening up the garage because that was a potential place where I could shut the water off and looking up at the ceiling and just seeing the water through the ceiling, into the garage, onto our car.

  04:22-04:28

  And in that moment, just thinking, "Oh my gosh, I'm flooding our house.

  04:29-04:36

  I am going to flood our house." So this went on for what felt like five hours, but it was really only a couple of minutes.

  04:37-04:49

  And then finally, at the last minute, right before the water that was all over the kitchen went into the living room, to our hardwood floors, possibly ruining them and warping them forever.

  04:50-04:55

  I went back to a knob that I tried to turn before and just turned it harder.

  04:55-04:57

  And eventually that shut the water off.

  04:57-05:00

  But at the very, very last minute.

  05:02-05:06

  So young and naive I was just those long months ago.

  05:09-05:13

  And if you don't know, Andrew did say in the introduction, I work in sports talk radio.

  05:13-05:17

  So in my mind, a lot of things go back to sports analogies.

  05:17-05:19

  That's just how my mind has been wired.

  05:20-05:26

  And in sports, we like to call this moment of triumph, this moment of victory, coming through in the clutch.

  05:27-05:29

  Just sounds cooler, basically.

  05:30-05:37

  And these moments of triumph and victory in the last seconds are easily recognizable, and they separate some athletes.

  05:38-05:43

  It's like when Ben Roethlisberger threw that touchdown pass in the corner of the end zone to San Antonio Homes and the Super Bowl.

  05:45-05:46

  That was coming up in the clutch.

  05:47-05:56

  When Sidney Crosby scored the golden goal in the Olympics in overtime to defeat Team USA, that's coming through in the clutch.

  05:57-06:02

  It defines these legends, these sports heroes, if you will, as loosely as you can use that term.

  06:04-06:05

  The moments that people remember.

  06:07-06:16

  And I learned some valuable lessons that day with the water put too much pressure on an older skinny plastic pipe and always know how to shut your water off.

  06:18-06:36

  But my shutting off the water is of course far from that glorious moment and was more God giving me grace in that moment. And in saying that I can't help but to think that Jesus Christ is that legend. He's that figure for all of us brothers and sisters in the faith.

  06:37-07:11

  He's capable of coming through in those moments when you feel lost, feel desperate, feel confused, scared like I was with that water. Or in the moments when you've been fighting through something, a sin in your life that you're trying to overcome, a financial hardship, or just any difficult decision that you've had to make that you've been wrestling with, You just need some clarification. Just need some direction. That extra push to get you through it and on to the other side. To get victory over that thing.

  07:13-08:25

  And that's when you can rely on Jesus Christ. That's when He shows you His power and shows He is worthy of all your trust and can come through in the clutch for you. And you may hear that and you think, "Well, that's, I mean, He made up Jesus in the clutch, really awesome, sports, whatever, but how do I know that this is true? How can I know that when I've exhausted myself and my abilities and things are at their worst that Jesus will lead me through? Let's go to his word, as we should all the time in these scenarios and as we should daily as Christians, and let's see for ourselves why we can have that confidence, why that's not just a cute saying. Turn in your Bibles with me please if you haven't to 1st Peter chapter 5 starting in verse 6. This is Peter writing from what he refers to as Babylon which is most likely Rome and he's addressing this to Christians scattered all over including Asia Minor which is now modern day Turkey and he's writing this to encourage them as they are still under Roman control and they're suffering much persecution. So let's read.

  08:28-08:57

  "Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God so that at the proper time he may exalt you, casting all your anxieties on him because he cares for you. Be sober-minded, be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a firm in your faith, knowing the same kinds of suffering are being experienced by your brotherhood throughout the world.

  08:58-09:09

  And after you have suffered a little while, the God of all grace, who has called you to his eternal glory in Christ, will himself restore, confirm, strengthen, and establish you.

  09:10-09:13

  To him be the dominion forever and ever. Amen.

  09:15-09:21

  So how do I know Jesus will come through in the clutch? Well, number one on your outlines, because he's my authority.

  09:23-10:15

  Let's go back to verse 6 here real quickly. It says, "Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God so that the proper time he may exalt you." I love that this passage starts out this way. Why? Because it establishes right away that if you don't get your own pride out of the way, if you don't humble yourself before your Lord and Savior under his mighty hand. If you think you know better and you can do a better job and you know the right moves to make than the one who created you and created everything around you, who knows all your faults, all your weaknesses, who understands the situation that you're going through and on a deeper level than you could even possibly comprehend, then you'll fail. Every time.

  10:17-10:34

  Holding on to your pride will ruin you. And if you want more assurance on that, you can look no further than the verse before this statement in verse 5 in 1 Peter, where it says, "Likewise, you who are younger, be subject to the elders.

  10:34-10:55

  Clove yourselves, all of you, with humility toward one another, for God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble." So not only does our pride ruin us, but did you see what else is is added on there, the little cherry on top of your hottie sundae, that God is actually opposed to the proud.

  10:56-11:00

  He's on the other side of you whenever you're too prideful.

  11:01-11:02

  He hates that.

  11:03-11:05

  This brings it to a whole other level.

  11:07-11:14

  This is taking the field, and God Almighty, big, giant God, is on the other side.

  11:15-11:18

  He's looking to go against all your best efforts.

  11:20-11:23

  This is like following a GPS in an area that you've never been before.

  11:25-11:28

  And you're driving along, and all of a sudden, you start to feel pretty confident in yourself.

  11:29-11:30

  Say, hey, that tree looks familiar.

  11:31-11:33

  I think I know where I am right now.

  11:34-11:37

  So all of a sudden, you decide not to follow that GPS anymore.

  11:38-11:42

  And you start to go down roads that maybe the GPS didn't tell you to go down.

  11:44-11:56

  And now somehow every turn that you take, every shortcut that you take, every right turn that you think you're making along the way is somehow leading you farther away from your destination.

  11:57-12:00

  And it just keeps getting worse and worse and worse.

  12:01-12:05

  And you're driving yourself even further away from your goal, from your victory.

  12:06-12:09

  And ultimately in this case, from God.

  12:10-12:11

  It's working against you now.

  12:14-12:19

  So before you can go any further in asking for Jesus to come through for you, it has to start here.

  12:21-12:22

  It has to start with humility.

  12:24-12:27

  With being willing to admit that you don't know the best way out.

  12:28-12:29

  Or the best way forward.

  12:31-12:34

  Be humble so that God can lift you up in due time.

  12:35-12:40

  Be humble so that God can offer you His grace, as it says in verse 6.

  12:40-12:45

  And that word grace being something that is given to us that we don't deserve.

  12:47-12:50

  Stop trying to do it all on your own and in your own strength.

  12:51-12:51

  It's silliness.

  12:54-12:57

  And I've been there before, recently, like this week recently.

  12:58-12:59

  I know what that's like.

  13:01-13:02

  Know that God is your authority.

  13:04-13:08

  We've been called to obey His authority and humbly serve Him with our lives.

  13:09-13:15

  And it's a lot easier to know and accept that God is your authority when number two is also true on your outlines.

  13:16-13:20

  Which is that I know Jesus will come through in the clutch because He cares.

  13:22-13:23

  Let's look at verse 7.

  13:25-13:32

  It says, "Casting all your anxieties on Him because He cares for you." Our God is not socially distant.

  13:34-13:39

  He didn't just create us, maybe with a mask on, and just walk away.

  13:40-13:41

  That's not what our God did.

  13:42-13:58

  He didn't just place us in the world on this broken earth to just kind of fend for ourselves and figure out the many trials and tribulations of this life and say, "Hey, even through your struggles you just got to find a way to come back to me." No, that's not how it works.

  13:59-14:00

  He's in our every day.

  14:01-14:02

  He knows our emotions.

  14:04-14:14

  What makes us happy, what makes us excited, what makes us angry, what frustrates us to no end, and what we really need to satisfy our souls.

  14:15-14:19

  And as mentioned in verse 7 here, what makes us anxious as well.

  14:21-14:25

  Like whenever we've run out of options and we just kind of throw our hands up and we say, "You know what?

  14:26-14:26

  That's it.

  14:26-14:27

  I've got no other answers left.

  14:28-14:33

  All I can do is just look up." Have you ever been there before?

  14:34-14:35

  That feeling?

  14:37-14:38

  Cast your anxieties on him.

  14:40-14:40

  Why?

  14:41-14:42

  Because he cares.

  14:44-14:50

  Every year my wife Lexi and I go on a trip to the Dominican Republic, except for this year of course because it was canceled.

  14:51-14:57

  And every year we get to see a great example of how caring makes a difference.

  14:57-15:04

  The local leaders there are pouring into the kids that we run the basketball and volleyball camp with.

  15:05-15:11

  And they're taking time out of their every day to pour into those kids and to meet their needs, every one of their needs.

  15:12-15:23

  Physical needs by feeding them meals, their emotional needs by just sitting down and having a conversation with them about what's going on in their lives, what's going on at home.

  15:25-15:30

  those coaches can relate to them very well because they've been through some of the same things.

  15:32-15:43

  And also meet their spiritual needs by having Bible studies with them, by going through Scripture before we start every day at camp. And they show to them that they care about them.

  15:44-15:51

  Here I am investing my time and my energy to you in meeting those needs personally for you.

  15:53-16:00

  And it all comes together, it all means that much more to these kids when somebody shows they care.

  16:01-16:06

  That they aren't just a number. And that's what God is telling us here through Peter.

  16:08-16:39

  And what a statement that is, really, if you think about it. I mean, here God says, "I already know what is making you anxious. I know it. And I love you, and I care for you, and I'm big enough to handle it. So bring it on. Cast all your anxieties, cast all your fears, all your sins, all your failures, everything. Lay it on me, and I can handle it.

  16:41-16:47

  I can lead you through it. I'm inviting you to pass over all your baggage onto me.

  16:49-16:53

  Don't leave anything on the table, because I'll know if you do.

  16:54-17:07

  Bring it all to me so that I can lift you up, so I can come through for you in your most desperate moments. So please come to me in humility, because I care for you.

  17:10-17:50

  So now knowing that God is my authority and that he cares for me, here's another truth of why Jesus will come through in the clutch of my life. And it's number three, because he is stronger than my opponent. Let's look at verse eight. It says, "Be sober-minded, be watchful. Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour." Now, this is certainly a bit of a change here with the message. Now, all of a sudden, Peter is warning us to stay focused, To stay alert, to stay aware of the things that we're saying, the people that we are spending time with, how we're acting, who we're surrounding ourselves with.

  17:52-17:52

  Why does he say that?

  17:54-17:56

  Well, it's because we have an enemy.

  17:57-18:03

  And our enemy is described here as prowling around like a roaring lion, looking for someone to devour.

  18:04-18:05

  That's the adversary.

  18:07-18:08

  And do you get that image?

  18:09-18:18

  I think of just a lion hunched down, maybe in some tall grass somewhere, straight out of like a National Geographic show.

  18:19-18:20

  It's like licking its lips.

  18:20-18:31

  It's looking toward the horizon at a young or injured wildebeest, ready to just pounce on it the minute that the herd turns its back, the minute that it can get it alone.

  18:34-18:41

  And I think that's the picture that's being painted here, that our enemy, Satan, is always prowling around.

  18:43-18:46

  He's always waiting to just pick us off the minute we turn away from God.

  18:47-18:54

  The minute we isolate ourselves, and the minute we're easy to pick off, turn our back on God.

  18:56-19:00

  So hold that thought and hold that image in your head for just a couple minutes.

  19:01-19:06

  You've probably heard many times that Jesus is characterized as a lion in Scripture.

  19:07-19:11

  He's the lion of what? Judah. The tribe of Judah.

  19:12-19:13

  One of the twelve tribes of Israel.

  19:15-19:24

  And the idea of a lion being attached to this tribe goes back to Genesis 49, when Jacob is delivering parting words to each of his twelve sons.

  19:26-19:37

  And when he got to Judah, his fourth, he said in Genesis 49, starting in verse 8, "Judah is a lion's cub. From the prey, my son, you have gone up.

  19:38-19:43

  He stooped down, he crouched as a lion, and as a lioness, who dares rouse him?

  19:45-19:52

  The scepter shall not depart from Judah, nor the ruler's staff from between his feet, until tribute comes to him.

  19:53-20:04

  And to him shall be the obedience of the peoples." So here the lion has the imagery of being majestic, of being kingly in nature.

  20:04-20:07

  Like who dares rouse up this lion?

  20:07-20:09

  Who would dare to do something like that?

  20:10-20:14

  And that's significant because this is the tribe that's full of great kings.

  20:16-20:25

  From King David, King Solomon, And ultimately, of course, the King of Kings, the King of Heaven and Earth, King Jesus, comes through this line.

  20:27-20:31

  And the scepter there in Genesis 49 is the staff that kings often have in pictures that you might see.

  20:32-20:42

  It's that symbol of authority, and it says it shall never depart from Judah, meaning Jesus reigns as King and will forever.

  20:44-20:49

  So based off of that, we know for sure that Jesus is a lion.

  20:51-20:58

  Now let's go back to verse 8 in 1 Peter, and let's read this carefully and look at the distinction.

  21:00-21:12

  It says, "Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion." It doesn't say your enemy prowls around as a roaring lion, like he already is.

  21:14-21:16

  but just that he wants to act like one.

  21:17-21:18

  He wants to devour you.

  21:19-21:24

  He wants to control you, to try to be your king, and make you think that he is one.

  21:26-21:26

  But he's not.

  21:28-21:30

  He merely tries to act like one.

  21:31-21:33

  There is a huge difference there.

  21:35-21:47

  And I can't talk lions and kings without getting into one of my favorite movies of all time, One that I requested to watch multiple times per day as reports from my parents as a child.

  21:49-21:49

  Aladdin.

  21:49-21:50

  No, The Lion King.

  21:52-21:55

  Here in The Lion King, we have Mufasa and we have Scar, right?

  21:56-21:59

  Where Mufasa is clearly a real king.

  22:00-22:04

  Where under his rule, the pride is going well, everything's relatively peaceful.

  22:04-22:06

  Clearly he's what's best for the kingdom.

  22:08-22:09

  And then there's Scar.

  22:10-22:11

  Satan, if you will.

  22:12-22:17

  just trying to come in there and mess everything up, to ruin things.

  22:18-22:27

  He even kills his own brother Mufasa and then tells Mufasa's son that it was his fault, making him run away forever so that he can have the kingdom.

  22:29-22:36

  And he takes over the land and he drives it right into misery and despair because of all of his evil intentions, because that's what he wanted to do from the very beginning.

  22:38-22:47

  Scar wasn't a real lion. He wasn't a real king. He just prowled around looking to devour as if he was one.

  22:49-22:58

  He was a fake. And spoiler alert, if you haven't seen the movie that came out in 1993, I believe, he was ultimately defeated.

  23:00-24:05

  And guess what? So Satan has also. We know that for a fact. We can find that answer in God's Word as well. We've seen it twice going back to our study in Revelation that Pastor Jeff led us through. First in Revelation 5.5 where coming on to the scene is one that can only read the scrolls and break the seven seals and take his throne. The only one that can do that. 5.5 says, "And one of the elders said to me, 'Weep no more. Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has conquered so that he can open the scrolls and its seven seals.'" And then in Revelation chapter 20, when Satan is thrown into the lake of fire to be tormented forever. And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were.

  24:06-24:12

  They will be tormented day and night forever and ever." There's the victory.

  24:14-24:31

  That's the lion. Point being here, God is stronger than my opponent. God's already won. That mountain in front of you that seems impossible to climb, that that stronghold, that enemy you've been dealing with, doesn't stand a chance.

  24:33-24:36

  There's nothing or no one he can't.

  24:38-24:45

  So we're called to resist Satan, the fake, knowing that we have the power and the Holy Spirit to do so.

  24:46-24:50

  And we do so knowing that we're also not alone, as verse 8 tells us.

  24:51-25:18

  That our brothers and sisters sitting here next to us today, and sisters across the street at Northway, our brothers and sisters in the rest of the Pittsburgh area and the United States, and certainly our brothers and sisters across the world who suffer much persecution for their faith know exactly what we're talking about here. They go through the same temptations and the same sufferings that we've gone through ourselves.

  25:20-25:28

  And that leads me to the fourth reason why I know that Jesus can come through in the clutch in my life and in your life.

  25:30-25:33

  And number four is because He always sees it through.

  25:34-25:36

  Let's look at verses 10 and 11.

  25:39-26:17

  "And after you have suffered a little while, the God of all grace, who has called you to His eternal glory in Christ, will himself restore, confirm, strengthen, and establish you. To him be the glory forever and ever. Amen. And if I can go back to a sports analogy just for a second, I know. But in 2017, a game that maybe some of us would like to not remember, especially if you're a Steelers fan, maybe a game you would like to remember if you're Taylor Halland, but the New England Patriots played the Atlanta Falcons in the Super Bowl.

  26:19-26:23

  And the first half was just a disaster for New England.

  26:24-26:26

  21-3 they were down at halftime.

  26:26-26:29

  Eventually they got down 28-3 in that game.

  26:29-26:30

  Everything was falling apart.

  26:31-26:34

  New England's defense looked like they were clueless.

  26:35-26:37

  Even the great Tom Brady threw an interception for a touchdown.

  26:39-26:42

  But then if you're a sports fan, you know how the rest of the story goes.

  26:44-27:18

  that New England ended up coming back and they were racing the biggest deficit in Super Bowl history and winning that game in overtime 34 to 28. But I can't help but to think that our suffering can be like that sometimes, right? We go back to that first half, we're the Patriots and our life is just running us over. Just beating us into submission and blowing right past us without us having much to say about it at all. Just being left confused and broken. We feel helpless.

  27:20-27:52

  And whether we're feeling the weight of that directly as a result of our faith, or we're just struggling to keep our faith through this difficult time, it feels like we're fighting insurmountable odds. But in verse 10 it says that after we've suffered a little while, similar to what he was talking about in verse 9 just before this, after you've done so, He will restore you and make you strong, firm, and steadfast. God isn't just in it for the short term, for the first half.

  27:53-27:57

  As Christians, we know we are to share in the sufferings of Christ. We're promised that.

  27:59-28:08

  We're promised to have hardships if we truly live for Jesus. That people will oppose us, They'll persecute us. They'll attack us sometimes.

  28:09-28:12

  Just as they did to Jesus Himself whenever He was walking the earth.

  28:14-28:22

  And if people can do that to the Son of God, God in human form, then they can certainly do it to you while you're here.

  28:23-28:23

  We should expect that.

  28:26-28:27

  But we can't be discouraged by it.

  28:29-28:48

  1st Hen tells us that after we've suffered for the cause of God and for building up His kingdom while He's here on earth, That's when God will strengthen us and truly restore us and make us strong because we're serving him. And so let's take a step back for a moment and let's think about this.

  28:49-28:55

  Let's think about what person we know that can exemplify this the most.

  28:57-29:03

  Who suffered for a little while, greatly actually, and then rose to victory.

  29:05-29:54

  It's Jesus Christ on the cross. The ultimate example of coming through in the clutch, is it not? Jesus comes to this earth knowing what many men did not know yet, and that their real problem was not with the Roman rule or with humans that were persecuting them, but their real enemy was their sin. That was the real problem at hand, and he came to take it and to conquer it. He preached God's Word to his followers. He showed his people the way. He went against many social norms of the time, only to get captured, tortured, and hung on a cross, humiliated in front of everyone.

  29:58-30:07

  But he was supposed to be the Messiah. He was supposed to be the Savior of all mankind and he gets crucified after he professed himself that he was God.

  30:09-30:09

  That's it?

  30:10-30:11

  Really?

  30:11-30:55

  All hope lost? Of course not. In the greatest and most important comeback story of all time, the greatest example of coming through in the clutch, right when it looks like Jesus has been defeated, he couldn't be contained by the tomb. He took over our sins upon himself because he knew no sin himself, and he buried them forever. The stone rolls away and our Savior and Lord overcomes death and sin to bring us victory over our sin, if we believe in Him, and open the gates of heaven for his people to dwell with him forever.

  30:57-31:16

  That's the Lion of Judah. That's the eternal glory in Christ, and that's why we can say in verse 11, "To Him be the power forever and ever. Amen." That's the truth. So Jesus plays the long game.

  31:17-33:02

  We know that because we're free from the bondage of sin because of his work on that cross. And no matter how bad things get, doesn't matter if you feel unreachable or unworthy, Jesus can come through for you in your darkest moments because he's your authority, because he cares for you, because he's stronger than your opponent and your situation no matter what it is. Nothing is too big for Him. And because He's in it for the long haul, He's not going anywhere. And He deserves honor and glory with how you live your life daily and how we live our lives every single day. And to close, I'd like to read from Psalm 139. And you don't have to turn there. In fact, if you would, I'd like you to just close your eyes. And I want you to put everything else you might be thinking about away, and where your mind may have wandered throughout this message. Maybe it's lunch after this or whatever. And I want you to just take in these words from David in Psalm 139. And I hope this is a great encouragement for you as you go about your battles, go about your week, even go about the rest of your today. No matter what you're facing, and maybe it's just an opportunity to rest in His presence in these really strange times in our country.

  33:04-33:11

  Psalm 139 starting in verse 7 says, "Where shall I go from your spirit?

  33:14-33:20

  Or where shall I flee from your presence? If I ascend to heaven, you are there.

  33:21-33:24

  If I make my bed and shield, you are there.

  33:26-34:02

  If I take the wings of the morning and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea, even there your hand shall lead me, and your right hand shall hold me. If I say, 'Surely the darkness shall cover me, and the light about me be night,' even the darkness is not dark to you. The night is bright as the day, for darkness is as light with you. Do you believe that?

  34:04-34:24

  Do you believe that no matter where you go, no matter what you experience, even if you've never experienced it before, and we know that a lot of us have been in that place over the last few months or so, that there isn't a place or a moment when God isn't with you.

  34:26-34:34

  And through 1 Peter chapter 5, we know His power. We know that we can have confidence in Him.

  34:36-34:46

  I'm gonna pray to close us and then we can all sing a song together that was inspired by Psalm 139 as the worship team makes its way up.

  34:49-34:53

  Father God, I thank you for just the truth in your Word.

  34:55-35:00

  I thank you that we can have confidence in you to come through in the moments where we don't have any answers left.

  35:03-35:08

  And I thank you that you are big enough to handle anything that we're going through, that it's not a secret to you, God.

  35:09-35:11

  That you are our authority.

  35:12-35:13

  We can stand firm in that.

  35:15-35:19

  Help us to humble ourselves so that we can seek the help of You.

  35:21-35:31

  And I thank You, Lord, that You care for us, that You're in our every day, You know our thoughts, our emotions, everything that's going on with us on a deeper level than we can even understand ourselves.

  35:34-35:50

  And I thank You that You are stronger and that You prove that through Your Word, that We can go from the beginning of the book to the end of the book, being Your Word, the Bible, and know that You ultimately win.

  35:52-35:57

  God, I thank You that You don't just play in the first half.

  35:59-36:06

  You aren't going to just sit around and give up, that You always see it through, that You're there until the very end.

  36:08-36:21

  I thank you for these truths and I pray that each one of us can take those and apply it to our lives and have confidence and we wouldn't have fear with anything that we are facing in our lives.

  36:22-36:27

  Thank you Lord for your power, your strength and the truth that you reveal to us in your word.

  36:29-36:31

  In Jesus' name I pray, amen.

Small Group Discussion
Read 1 Peter 5:6-11

1. Are there anxieties in your life that you keep from God? Is there a reason you do that?
   

2. What does your adversary “seeking someone to devour” look like in your life?
   

3. How would you describe being “firm in your faith” mentioned in 1 Peter 5:9?
   

4. What are some ways that we can humble ourselves daily so that God may exalt us?
   

5. Is there a time that God came through in the clutch for you?
   

Breakout
Pray for each other’s anxieties that may be keeping you from your faith in God.

Lifecycle of Redemption

Introduction:

Lifecycle of Redemption (Psalm 107:10-22):

1. Recognizing our need for it is as hard as we make it (Ps 107:10-12 | Ps 107:17-18)

   How do we recognize our need for redemption?

   1. How are things working out for you now?
   2. Are you trying to do it on your own?
   3. Is there some nagging sin you're dealing with?
   4. How's your walk?

2. But being redeemed is practically free as we make it (Ps 107:13,19)

   How do we cry out to the Lord?

   1. In humility
   2. In reverence

   Psalm 145:19 - "He fulfills the desire of those who fear him; he also hears their cry and saves them"

   3. In faith
   4. Submissively

   Psalm 66:18 - "If I had cherished iniquity in my heart, the Lord would have not listened"

3. And fulfills our needs abundantly (Ps 107:14,16,20)

   Psalm 50:15 - "and call upon me in the day of trouble; I will deliver you, and you shall glorify me."

   Revelation 4:11 - "Worthy are you, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they existed and were created."

   How do we respond to being redeemed?

   1. Thanks and gratitude (Ps 107:15,21,22a)
   2. Sharing what he's done for you (Ps 107:22b)

Sermon Notes (PDF): BLANK
Hint: Highlight blanks above for answers!

• Audio Transcript

  00:00-00:03

  We'll be in Psalm 107 today and we'll be in verses 10 through 22.

  00:04-00:08

  While you're turning there, I'd like to share some life updates with the congregation.

  00:09-00:11

  You might know that I'm a father of two young kids.

  00:11-00:16

  I have a daughter Lydia who's five now and Silas is around two and a half.

  00:16-00:20

  And with them getting older, they're able to learn and take in a lot of stuff now.

  00:21-00:25

  They're ripe for that age where you can mold them, you can define their behaviors.

  00:25-00:30

  My wife Jessica and I will often read to them bedtime stories from a children's Bible.

  00:30-00:36

  We want to teach them about God, his character, his son Jesus, and what he did for us on the cross.

  00:37-00:40

  We want to do that in a way that they can understand that.

  00:40-00:45

  We want it to be with a message that's true, but simplified for them.

  00:45-00:52

  I think there's a lot of families that maybe raise their children on a similar Bible, but it's one where there's a lot of illustrations and pictures.

  00:54-01:55

  pictures in it are drawn idealistically, right? Everyone's clean, everyone's happy, and the thing that I get a kick out of with this is there are situations in the Bible where you know that you would be terrified or things are just going crazy and everyone's still drawn oddly calm. Like they illustrate Daniel just hanging out with the lions, even the lions they have smiles on their faces, and Lazarus being raised from the dead he just appears from the side of the building like, "Hey y'all, you know, I've been dead four days, whatever." And I get it, my kids are young, but when you read the Bible cover to cover, you find and discover that it's wrong, right? There's life and death situations, war, pain, struggle, it's all there. After all, not only is this God's word, but it's also an historical book too. So today we're going to be looking at some passages that are on that raw, true life side, when there are extreme lows and extreme highs.

  01:56-02:01

  Our passages today, we're going to be starting at the extreme lows and moving our way up to the highs.

  02:01-02:08

  Now, if you've ever watched a comic book movie in the past, you know, last decade, they follow a similar pattern, right?

  02:08-02:25

  They might not start at that low, but there always comes a point in the story where things are at their bleakest. Then somehow, through humbling themselves, through willpower or friendship, They overcome and win, they end on this high note, right?

  02:25-02:30

  That transformation, that shift from low to high, that usually comes through redemption.

  02:31-02:33

  There's stories about redeeming themselves.

  02:34-02:36

  That's the focus of our passages today.

  02:36-02:40

  We're going to be talking about redemption and our need for it.

  02:40-02:44

  But before we get diving into the scripture, I want to talk about that word, redemption.

  02:46-02:49

  It's one of those biblical terminologies that often gets secularized.

  02:50-02:52

  So we need a little bit of clarity here.

  02:53-02:58

  When I hear the word redemption or redeeming, two things come immediately to my mind.

  02:59-03:01

  A Bob Marley song and Chuck E. Cheese.

  03:02-03:05

  You might be wondering what both of those have to do with one another.

  03:05-03:08

  They don't, but maybe you can find a connection yourself.

  03:09-03:13

  The reason I think of Bob Marley is because he has a song called Redemption Song.

  03:13-03:17

  My dad used to play his albums in the car and around the house, so it's a bit of nostalgia.

  03:18-03:24

  But there's one part in the song where he sings, I'm not gonna sing, but he sings redemption songs, redemption songs.

  03:25-03:29

  So I looked up the lyrics 'cause I wanted to understand what does redemption mean to Bob Marley?

  03:30-03:34

  Well, I found that he was writing about freeing yourself from mental slavery.

  03:35-03:41

  And I don't wanna get into his beliefs, but I do wanna make the point of correlating the words freedom with redemption.

  03:42-03:44

  So let's hold that on in the back of our minds.

  03:45-03:47

  So now, what about Chuck E. Cheese?

  03:47-03:52

  Well, I think of it because we all know that nobody goes there to see the guy dressed up as a mouse.

  03:53-03:55

  We go there for the prize counter.

  03:55-04:04

  For all those outside the loop or living in a different country, Chuck E. Cheese is a family entertainment center where they have food games and corondolace ball pits.

  04:06-04:11

  A big part of their operation is a chain of exchanges or redemptions, right?

  04:12-04:16

  You buy tokens to play games, to earn tickets, to redeem them for prizes.

  04:17-04:29

  They had like little rubber snakes and bugs and candy for like five to ten tickets each and always something ridiculous like a 50cc dirt bike for 500,000 tickets that's been there since '97.

  04:29-04:30

  Nobody's going to get that.

  04:32-04:39

  Again, it's a bit of nostalgia here, but their whole business was centered around exchanges of this and that to get or redeem for something.

  04:39-04:44

  So we have these two concepts that make up redemption, freedom, exchanges.

  04:45-05:02

  we can also glean a few more general concepts. To buy back, to free, to repair, restore. Biblical redemption has similar parallels. There's this idea of purchasing or exchanging something for freedom, but it's not between men.

  05:03-05:22

  Biblical redemption is between us and God, and the thing we're being freed from is our sin. See, after the fall, the cycle of needing redemption and ultimate began ultimately have the goal of getting us back to the state that God originally intended us to be in fellowship with.

  05:23-05:32

  So God is buying us back from that socially distant state to live in eternity with our Creator in a restored or redeemed state, free from sin.

  05:33-05:34

  So how does that work?

  05:35-05:37

  How do we go about getting redeemed?

  05:37-05:40

  What is this life cycle of redemption?

  05:41-05:45

  Let's go to God's word and pick up Psalm 107 and read verses 10 through 22.

  05:46-05:51

  Here we're going to read two stories of redemption, the first being in verses 10 through 16.

  05:51-05:52

  We'll start there.

  05:53-05:58

  Some sat in darkness and in the shadow of death, prisoners in affliction and in irons.

  05:58-06:03

  They had rebelled against the words of God and spurned the counsel of the Most High.

  06:03-06:05

  So he bowed their hearts down with hard labor.

  06:06-06:08

  They fell with none to help.

  06:08-06:12

  Then they cried to the Lord in their trouble, and He delivered them from their distress.

  06:12-06:16

  He brought them out of the darkness and the shadow of death, and burst their bonds apart.

  06:17-06:22

  Let them thank the Lord for His steadfast love, for His wondrous works to the children of man.

  06:23-06:27

  For He shatters the doors of bronze, and cuts in two the bars of iron.

  06:28-06:32

  We'll continue on with our second redemption story, verses 17 through 22.

  06:33-06:38

  Some were fools through their sinful ways, and because of their iniquities suffered affliction.

  06:39-06:42

  They loathed any kind of food, and they drew near to the gates of death.

  06:43-06:46

  Then they cried to the Lord in their trouble, and He delivered them from their distress.

  06:47-06:50

  He sent out His Word and healed them, and delivered them from their destruction.

  06:51-06:56

  Let them thank the Lord for His steadfast love, for His wondrous works to the children of man.

  06:56-07:01

  And let them offer sacrifices of thanksgiving, and tell of His deeds in songs of joy.

  07:02-07:06

  My immediate reaction when reading this was, it's pretty dark and bleak, right?

  07:06-07:09

  Each story starts out extremely hopeless.

  07:10-07:14

  Both start with a situation of extreme affliction, the lobes.

  07:15-07:16

  The first story, there's imprisonment.

  07:17-07:19

  The second, sickness to the point of death.

  07:20-07:21

  How did they get there?

  07:21-07:24

  Well, scripture doesn't say exactly, right?

  07:24-07:29

  Whether they were taken by force for imprisonment, or maybe they didn't go to the doctor and that's why they're sick.

  07:29-07:34

  But we clearly see that they waited until their needs were extreme.

  07:34-07:38

  And that brings us to the first point on your outline, our need for redemption.

  07:39-07:43

  Number one, recognizing our need for redemption is as hard as we make it.

  07:44-07:47

  This is verses 10 through 12, 17 through 18.

  07:48-07:51

  So people are pretty good at messing up and making things harder than they need to be.

  07:52-07:56

  You see in both stories, the cause of their affliction, it's sin.

  07:57-08:01

  The first, it's sinful rebellion against God and His Word and spurring His counsel.

  08:01-08:04

  And the second, it's foolish ways and iniquities.

  08:05-08:07

  I think we can agree that the cause and effect are evident.

  08:08-08:11

  If you do something sinful and wrong, there's bound to be some consequences.

  08:12-08:15

  One difference between these two stories, though, is verse 12.

  08:16-08:16

  Read it again.

  08:16-08:20

  It mentions that God Himself brought about their affliction.

  08:21-08:32

  And I don't think I'm reading this wrong when I'm extrapolating from it, but it clearly states, "He bowed their hearts with hard labor." A.K.A., God himself was directly responsible for their affliction.

  08:33-08:37

  See, in the second one, it's just like, they sinned and they got sick, right?

  08:37-08:43

  Maybe they were neglecting their health or they were drinking themselves silly, but does it matter, right?

  08:43-08:49

  Between these two stories, does it matter that God intervened in the first one to bring about their affliction and not in the second one?

  08:50-08:50

  No.

  08:51-08:53

  After all, it's not God who started their troubles, right?

  08:54-09:11

  I mean, when I read these two stories, these situations, they seem almost parental in nature, right? They remind me of how I discipline -- well, and Jessica -- discipline our kids, right? There's some times when you have to step in immediately and you have to put that foot down, right?

  09:11-09:13

  You don't talk back to me and disrespect me that way.

  09:15-09:20

  Other times, you just have to provide warnings and let the kids kind of destroy themselves.

  09:21-09:24

  off of mommy's exercise ball. You're gonna slip and fall.

  09:24-09:37

  Five minutes later, "Ahh!" and I'm consoling my child, probably Lydia. I'm just rolling my eyes and just thinking to myself, "You know, I told you so." That's what I see God is doing here.

  09:38-09:52

  They reveal their iniquities. And I'll go out on a limb here, but practically all examples of my life, when things are going rough, I can trace it back to similar behaviors, lack of relationship with God, thinking I can do it on my own.

  09:53-10:09

  And I don't think I'm alone here. After all, how often is it driven into our heads as Americans, right, that you can be and do whatever you want? We live in a country that affords us every opportunity available, so don't let anybody stop you from doing what you want to do.

  10:10-10:16

  That gung-ho, can-do attitude often leaves little room for God and plenty of vacancy for sin.

  10:17-10:34

  So we're slogging through, aiming for a prize or some end goal along the way, or just rebelling against God, committing iniquities. So what do you expect to happen? And as things unravel and your situation gets worse, when do you expect it to change? I mean, how do you expect it to change?

  10:35-10:40

  That's why the first point I say, recognizing our need for redemption is as hard as we make it.

  10:41-10:50

  Depending on how stubborn or bullish you are, coming to the end of yourself and understanding You need God's redemption can come quickly or it can take a fair bit of time.

  10:51-11:02

  See, I relate to both of these examples because it took them a while to recognize their need for redemption. After all, they ended up in those extreme lows, in prison, on the verge of death.

  11:03-11:47

  See, I tend to do that myself. I rely upon myself to keep, I just keep digging that hole downwards, right? My work is one area where I struggle the most with this. See, I work with a team of people, technology, we obviously all have our specialties, but every one of us gets seen as like a subject matter expert in a given area. So, you know, I'll help people out. People often come to me to help them out with some certain problems, but some days it just turns into constant distractions, right? I can't get my work done, so I then get behind and it just snowballs throughout the entire week. I spend more time working, so I'm tired and it gets hard to separate that work stress from home. So then it just builds, builds, builds.

  11:48-12:01

  The whole time I feel like, "No, if I can just do this, if I can finish this, get this done, then it never goes according to plan." So I'm not physically in prison. I feel overwhelmed and imprisoned by my own futile efforts, sickened by them.

  12:02-12:12

  Like I said, some of you might recognize your need for redemption quickly. A need to get out of your situation and that you need God's help with that. But coming to that recognition is key.

  12:13-12:19

  So on your outline, our sub-point under number one, how do we recognize our need for redemption?

  12:21-12:26

  Coming to this recognition requires taking some stock in your situation, right?

  12:27-12:28

  And we're gonna ask ourselves some questions.

  12:29-12:34

  Not all of these are gonna apply, but here's some questions we can ask ourselves to gauge where we're at.

  12:35-12:38

  So letter A, how are things working out for you right now?

  12:39-12:40

  Are things going well?

  12:40-12:43

  Or would you say something's out of control?

  12:44-12:46

  My guess is if you're asking this question to yourself, then it's the latter.

  12:47-12:51

  Understanding that something, understanding there's something wrong is important.

  12:52-12:56

  It's not, it's a distinction that there's something bigger to this than just a mishap or an unfortunate event.

  12:57-13:00

  Letter B, are you trying to do it on your own?

  13:01-13:03

  Where are you placing your trust and strength from?

  13:04-13:05

  From yourself or from God?

  13:06-13:07

  From his word, from his people?

  13:08-13:09

  We're not meant to do life alone.

  13:10-13:13

  Is there anyone aware of your situation and are folks able to pray for you?

  13:14-13:16

  You're not as strong as you think.

  13:17-13:17

  Letter C.

  13:18-13:20

  Is there some nagging sin you're dealing with?

  13:21-13:22

  Sin is a major catalyst for trials.

  13:23-13:26

  Both verses 11 and 17 explicitly mention this.

  13:27-13:28

  It was the cause of their affliction.

  13:30-13:36

  So is there anything you're doing or continuing to do that is feeding into your situation?

  13:37-13:40

  Finally, letter D, how's your walk?

  13:41-13:42

  Are you fellowshipping with God and other Christians?

  13:43-13:49

  Asking God to show you through this, reading his word, understanding his character, and pursuing what he instructs us as Christians to do?

  13:50-13:57

  Now this isn't a comprehensive list by any means, but the idea is to get to a point where you recognize your need for redemption.

  13:58-14:06

  I mean, you can continue to beat your head against the wall or dig your hole, but once Once you're ready to turn it over to God and ask for his redemption, what do you do?

  14:07-14:09

  How much is it going to cost you?

  14:10-14:17

  Well, there's good news because the next point in your outline, number two, but being redeemed is practically free.

  14:18-14:20

  Verses 13 and 19.

  14:21-14:25

  One thing you might notice is that verses 13 and 19 are the exact same.

  14:26-14:31

  Then they cried out to the Lord in their trouble and he delivered them from their distress.

  14:32-14:45

  Now, I don't see anything before that that says that they recognized they were being sinful so they went to the soup kitchen, they said "Five Our Fathers," they donated to charity and then they promised God, "I'm never going to do that again." No, it's simple.

  14:46-14:48

  What did they do to get redeemed?

  14:49-14:50

  They cried out to the Lord.

  14:51-14:53

  Now what does that mean to cry out?

  14:53-14:55

  Is it like weeping and sobbing?

  14:56-14:56

  I don't know, maybe.

  14:57-14:58

  I mean, that could be part of it.

  14:59-15:04

  emotional outpouring of feeling of distress and helplessness, but it's beyond that.

  15:04-15:08

  There's a pleading, a desperation, a reliance upon God.

  15:08-15:15

  You've recognized your need for God's deliverance and have come to the end of yourself, so you're turning it all over to Him.

  15:16-15:18

  Come to the cost question, right?

  15:19-15:21

  What did they pay with in our stories?

  15:22-15:23

  Again, nothing.

  15:24-15:26

  No works, deeds, or negotiation with the Lord.

  15:26-15:31

  And I think there's a lot of time where people can get caught up with this concept, right?

  15:31-15:38

  They try to penalize themselves or think that there's something that they need to do to earn God's mercy and grace for their eventual redemption.

  15:39-15:43

  But if you think that's the case, then I have bad news for you.

  15:44-15:47

  Like it or not, there is nothing you can do to earn God's redemption.

  15:49-15:53

  We all fall short of the glory of God, but more on that later.

  15:54-15:56

  They cry, God responds.

  15:57-16:01

  So after we recognize our need for redemption, how do we ask for it?

  16:02-16:08

  Well, we're told in these verses, right, after all they repeat themselves, it's got to be pretty important, we cry out to the Lord.

  16:10-16:11

  Okay, so what does that mean?

  16:12-16:14

  How do we cry out to the Lord?

  16:14-16:19

  Well, I'm glad you also asked that rhetorical question because it's the next sub-point on our outline.

  16:20-16:23

  Letter number two, how do we cry out to the Lord?

  16:24-16:26

  Letter A, inhumility.

  16:27-16:31

  At this point, I'd hope you understand you need God's help, right?

  16:31-16:38

  You can't go begrudgingly to the Lord like, "Fine, please help me, I guess." That's not how it works.

  16:38-16:40

  Your heart needs to be ready for Him.

  16:41-16:45

  All throughout the Bible, when people cry out to the Lord in humility, He responds.

  16:46-16:48

  Letter B, in reverence.

  16:49-16:50

  Reverence is the fear of the Lord.

  16:51-16:54

  It's when you understand his power, his holiness, and you have a healthy respect for that.

  16:55-16:57

  God listens to the reverend.

  16:58-17:00

  Psalm 145, 19 tells us so.

  17:01-17:04

  It reads, "He fulfills the desire of those who fear him.

  17:05-17:11

  "He also hears their cry and saves them." In letter C, in faith.

  17:12-17:16

  Do you believe in God's ability to help you or is this just a last ditch effort?

  17:17-17:19

  It's one of those, "All we can do is pray" type of deals.

  17:20-17:21

  We love that here at Harvest, right?

  17:22-17:25

  You're asking the Lord who created the heavens and the earth to help you.

  17:26-17:27

  Our God is not small.

  17:28-17:32

  But maybe you think your problem is one that God doesn't want to deal with, right?

  17:32-17:34

  He doesn't want to hear about it and he's not concerned with it.

  17:35-17:37

  The scripture would tell us otherwise, right?

  17:38-17:40

  He hears the cries of the affliction.

  17:40-17:42

  He knows the number of hairs on our head.

  17:42-17:45

  He knows us intimately, what troubles us and what we need.

  17:46-17:50

  So there's no separation or categories of affliction when it comes to God.

  17:51-17:54

  It's like, he'll deal with this first, but you've been prioritized behind my gates.

  17:55-17:59

  No, have faith in God's power to help you, and he will.

  18:00-18:03

  Finally, D, how do we cry out to the Lord?

  18:04-18:05

  Submissively.

  18:06-18:08

  So turning over yourself and your situation to God is crucial.

  18:09-18:10

  There's no more room for you.

  18:11-18:12

  Time for you to let God work.

  18:13-18:17

  This includes addressing some of those questions that we asked ourselves prior.

  18:18-18:19

  So you're not walking with the Lord?

  18:20-18:20

  Get on it.

  18:21-18:22

  Sinning? Cut it out.

  18:23-18:27

  Psalm 66, 18 gives us a perfect picture of why we submit when crying out to the Lord.

  18:28-18:30

  Or rather, what would happen if you don't submit?

  18:30-18:39

  It reads, "If I had cherished iniquity in my heart, the Lord would have not listened." We can't get much clearer than that.

  18:40-18:41

  Lay it all at the foot of the cross.

  18:43-18:47

  So should we go Old Testament on this and bring out the sackcloth and ashes?

  18:49-18:53

  I mean, I guess if you're inclined to, but the heart of a cry out to the Lord is your heart.

  18:54-19:03

  You can cry out silently in prayer or aloud from your rooftop, but again, the important factor is what is driving that cry and your heart and intentions behind it.

  19:04-19:09

  I suppose that's why our point number two was saying that redemption is practically free.

  19:10-19:19

  We aren't paying with money or good deeds, but we are paying with ourselves, giving up our pride, our sin, our time, all that for his redemption.

  19:20-19:22

  Really, that's all I could see would be the only cost here.

  19:23-19:28

  Now, one other thing I wanna bring up is that there is no mention of timing here.

  19:29-19:34

  When it comes to the imprisonment, how long did it take for them to be delivered?

  19:35-19:35

  Well, it doesn't say.

  19:36-19:51

  And for the sick, was it a supernatural healing, something instantaneous, Or did God work through what we would consider to be typical methods of letting our bodily functions rebuild and recover, taking a few weeks or maybe even a couple of months?

  19:52-19:53

  I don't know, it doesn't say.

  19:54-19:58

  The one thing that we can be sure of is that God responded and delivered them from their distress.

  19:59-20:02

  He heard their cries and it did not fall on deaf ears.

  20:02-20:08

  And I know personally, it can be hard to wait for God's deliverance, especially when we're in this hyperactive, instant gratification world.

  20:09-20:12

  But if you're looking for God where He's working, you'll find it.

  20:13-20:23

  If you come back to my work situation example, I find that often when I'm overwhelmed and I've come to the end of myself and I'm asking God for His redemption, it happens.

  20:24-20:26

  It's subtle, but it does happen.

  20:27-20:34

  For instance, there's been many times where I've been on a project or something and people know like, "Hey, Mike, you need help.

  20:35-20:36

  You seem like you got a lot on your plate.

  20:37-20:40

  And you know, it's simple, right?

  20:40-20:43

  But I get redeemed from those issues.

  20:45-20:51

  Or I have meetings that are blocking up my calendar and, you know, people just push them or cancel them.

  20:52-20:54

  So I have more time to do what I need to do.

  20:55-21:02

  And I'm sure I could chalk that up to happenstance or just luck, but for that to happen over and over again when I really need it, come on.

  21:03-21:03

  I know my God.

  21:04-21:07

  He raised his son from the dead so he can push a meeting or two.

  21:08-21:14

  So maybe you're in a situation where redemption is a small need or rather it's very large, a big need.

  21:15-21:25

  But the one thing that we can be sure of, and this is the final point for today, number three is that God's redemption fulfills our needs abundantly.

  21:25-21:29

  Or rather if we're continuing the sentence, and fulfills our needs abundantly.

  21:30-21:32

  This is verses 14, 16.

  21:33-21:41

  So coming to these verses, I mean, these are the most exciting verses in the scripture, the most promising ones here, right?

  21:41-21:44

  It's the result of being redeemed, right?

  21:44-21:50

  And these people, prison, close to death, they submit to God, they cry out to Him, they're in trouble.

  21:50-21:51

  And what do they get?

  21:52-21:52

  A little redemption.

  21:54-22:00

  No, no, you know, like the imprisoned got an extra meal and it says that they got some extra basketball court time.

  22:01-22:06

  sick they got some Tylenol to help their headaches. No, that's not what I'm reading here, right?

  22:07-22:19

  God fills their knees in total. He delivers them. Imprisoned. Freed. Iron bars cut in half. Bonds bursted apart. The sick healed and freed from their destruction.

  22:20-22:25

  You know, when I read this, it's hard not to get amped, like God's coming in like a superhero to save the day.

  22:25-22:27

  But God's not a superhero.

  22:28-22:33

  And what I mean by that is that after redemption, he requires glory.

  22:34-22:37

  See, our comic book heroes we read about, typically they hide in the shadows.

  22:37-22:40

  They stop at a speeding train and then off, off and away.

  22:40-22:43

  They don't linger. They're oh so humble.

  22:43-22:44

  They just want to serve the people of Gotham.

  22:45-22:46

  Not God.

  22:47-22:49

  He demands and deserves glory, and rightfully so.

  22:51-22:54

  And for those on the fence who think I'm making this up, there's a perfect verse that addresses this.

  22:54-23:22

  Psalm 50 15 it reads, "And call upon me in the day of trouble, I will deliver you and you shall glorify me." In fact that verse kind of sums up the entirety of our scripture today, right? Crying out in trouble, getting redeemed, and now glorify God. I don't know that might seem a bit prideful, right? Selfish, right? Demanding glory? Well maybe to us as people.

  23:23-23:29

  I mean I know if somebody asked me to them, my initial response would be, "Who are you?" Right?

  23:29-23:33

  "Who are you that I need to glorify you?" Let's flip that question back on God.

  23:34-23:48

  Imagine us asking God, "Who are you?" How about the I Am, our Father who created everything by speaking it into existence, who lives outside of time and space, who cares so much about us that he sent his Son to die on the cross for our sins?

  23:49-23:57

  Now, this is kind of getting into another sermon, but what it boils down to is that God is really the only one who deserves any glory.

  23:58-24:01

  Revelation 411 sums this up kind of nicely.

  24:01-24:23

  This is where we're at the throne room, and you have the 24 elders surrounding the Lord, and they say, "Worthy are you, our Lord and God, "to receive glory and honor and power, "for you created all things, "and by your will they existed and were created." Just reading this, who or what else can compare to our Lord?

  24:23-24:29

  Now, when it comes to giving God the glory after redemption, I feel like I fall short of this many, many times.

  24:29-24:31

  I don't give him the glory that he deserves.

  24:32-24:37

  It's easy for us to go through a situation and then just move on to the next thing, right?

  24:38-24:44

  Probably more a result of our hyperactive culture, but it's not the appropriate response.

  24:45-24:53

  So on your outline, the last bit of writing today and the sub-point under number three, How do we respond to being redeemed?

  24:54-24:58

  Now unlike the last set of lists, these actually come from the text today.

  24:59-25:02

  So you might have noticed there were a few verses I didn't address.

  25:02-25:03

  Well, they'll be addressed here.

  25:04-25:06

  So letter A, how do we respond to being redeemed?

  25:07-25:08

  With thanks and gratitude.

  25:09-25:15

  This is verses 15, 21, the first half of verse 22, which I will call 22A.

  25:17-25:19

  So in verses 15 and 21, we have repetition.

  25:19-25:30

  Again, the same verse, "Let us give thanks to the Lord for his steadfast love, for his wondrous works to the children of men." Upon being redeemed, there's a lot to be thankful for, right?

  25:31-25:38

  Not just because you were delivered from your situation, but the fact is that God will redeem you over and over again.

  25:38-25:43

  And we know this because in the scripture, it calls His love steadfast, right?

  25:43-25:44

  It's not a changing love.

  25:45-25:46

  It's not a conditional love.

  25:46-25:47

  No, it's fixed.

  25:48-25:50

  We can always come to God for redemption.

  25:51-25:55

  If he's redeemed you 10 times in the past, he's gonna redeem you 100 times in the future.

  25:56-26:00

  Verse 22a adds a little bit more onto our response, right?

  26:00-26:10

  And I labeled it as gratitude, but the delineation I wanted to make here was that thankfulness was more verbal, whereas gratitude is more an action, right?

  26:11-26:16

  The first half mentions in 22, let them offer sacrifices of thanksgiving.

  26:17-26:20

  So what is that exactly, a sacrifice of thanksgiving?

  26:21-26:27

  Well, in the Old Testament, it was usually an animal sacrifice, but it was given voluntarily, right?

  26:27-26:31

  And it was shared amongst the Lord, his priests, and the worshippers.

  26:32-26:40

  Now, today we don't have a system of animal sacrifices because Christ fulfilled that in full with his death on the cross and subsequent resurrection.

  26:41-26:46

  But the idea of a voluntary sacrificial offering still stands.

  26:47-26:48

  So how's that done today?

  26:48-26:54

  Well, you know, it could be through volunteering, could be through missions work, ministry work, giving back financially.

  26:55-27:06

  Point is, we should be giving back to God, not out of obligation, because we have Thanksgiving in our heart for what he's done for us, and that calls us to an action.

  27:07-27:14

  So the next way that we need to respond to being redeemed is letter B, by sharing what he's done for you.

  27:15-27:16

  And this is the second half of verse 22.

  27:18-27:26

  Second half of verse 22 reads, "And tell of his deeds and songs of joy." So here we're called to share what he's done for us with others.

  27:27-27:32

  You know, I say that because talking about songs and songs are meant to be sang out aloud among other people.

  27:32-27:34

  I think our worship leader, Darren, would agree.

  27:34-27:36

  That's the point of a song.

  27:37-27:39

  And during this time when it was written, that's what folks would do.

  27:40-27:45

  During feasts and celebrations, they'd write songs of praise and it would get sang for all to hear.

  27:45-27:48

  Now, I myself am not a songwriter.

  27:48-27:51

  My singing voice is not my spiritual gift.

  27:51-27:52

  Let's just put it that way.

  27:54-28:02

  But I think the important takeaway here is the idea of praising and sharing what he's done for you in your own private way, right?

  28:04-28:06

  Or not even private, I mean, just in your own way.

  28:06-28:09

  For instance, praying in small groups.

  28:10-28:15

  I know it's easy in prayer time to immediately launch into your requests and your needs.

  28:17-28:30

  But interestingly enough, I don't know if anybody else has noticed this in their small group, is that during this whole Corona spat, there's been a lot of folks praising and sharing God's deliverance, His redemption, what He's done for them in these trying times.

  28:32-28:39

  Now, maybe you can write a song or sing one that's already written, but again, the idea is share what He's done for you.

  28:40-28:53

  It's an encouragement for others it glorifies God. So there we have it. Our need for redemption is as hard as we make it, but being redeemed is practically free and fulfills our needs abundantly.

  28:54-29:13

  This is the life cycle of redemption. But before we go, I would make a good "As Seen on TV" spokesman if I didn't say, "But wait, there's more." Because this whole time we've been talking about situational redemption, right? Getting into trouble, crying out to God, being redeemed, and our response to it.

  29:14-29:40

  That's gonna happen over and over and over again. It's almost very Old Testament in a sense, right? Where constant animal sacrifices were done for redeeming for the sins of the people. And honestly that's just the nature of our flesh and the characteristics of living in a fallen world. We're gonna go through situational redemption weekly, perhaps daily. And unfortunately that's where a religions stop there too.

  29:41-29:53

  They teach that you have to get right with God and if you want to go to heaven, you're caught in sin or you're unredeemed from it, well straight to hell with you or purgatory or limbo or wherever you want to call it.

  29:54-30:18

  But that's not true. See earlier I said that there's nothing you can do to earn God's redemption and I'm sticking to that because there is nothing that we can offer God that doesn't already have. He spoke the world into existence. He But interestingly enough, there's actually something additional God offers to us that fulfills our needs more than a one-time situational redemption.

  30:19-30:25

  Or rather, it's someone He offered, His Son Jesus Christ, the eternal Redeemer.

  30:26-30:29

  You might be asking yourself, "It gets better?" Yeah, a whole lot better.

  30:30-30:37

  Because placing your trust in Jesus Christ as your Redeemer means there's no more what-ifs or uncertainty of your eternal state.

  30:38-30:48

  And unlike our fight against flesh and sin and the need for situational redemption almost daily, Christ paid for us once with his blood and death for all.

  30:49-30:52

  There's no need to be redeemed by him over and over and over again.

  30:53-31:00

  Reading this passage over, we can see that same archetype or pattern between our need for redemption and our need for Christ.

  31:01-31:05

  The same affliction, outcry, and deliverance, but this time with eternal meanings.

  31:05-31:10

  And these same sermon points apply directly to trusting Christ as our Redeemer.

  31:11-31:22

  So if you listen to this message, and each time I mention our need for redemption or God's deliverance, I want you to replace it with the words "Jesus Christ" with His Son.

  31:23-31:26

  That's what's so wonderful about the Bible and God's Word.

  31:27-31:29

  Old Testament or New, it all points to Jesus.

  31:30-31:32

  So what did we learn today?

  31:33-31:34

  Well, let's substitute some words.

  31:35-31:37

  We learned about our need for Christ.

  31:39-31:47

  Recognizing our need for Him is as hard as we make it, but being redeemed by Him is practically free and He fulfills our needs abundantly.

  31:48-31:48

  Let's pray.

  31:50-31:52

  Heavenly Father, we thank You for this day.

  31:52-31:58

  We thank You for Your Son, Jesus, for redemption through His blood, His death and resurrection.

  32:00-32:01

  We know that we screw up daily.

  32:01-32:05

  We often have to ask for forgiveness and ask for your redemption, Lord.

  32:06-32:11

  And that's going to continue on all the time until we are in eternity with your Son.

  32:12-32:17

  But we have that promise of being in eternity once we trust in your Son, Jesus Christ.

  32:17-32:20

  So we are extremely thankful for that.

  32:21-32:27

  Extremely thankful that you've given us a way out of this grind, out of this fallen world.

  32:29-32:52

  thank you God that you provided a way. Thank you for being able to bring your word today. Thank you for this congregation Lord and we will now end in praise, glorifying you, singing as a response to our redemption through your Son Jesus Christ. We ask this all in your Son Jesus's name.

  32:53-32:53

  Amen.

Small Group Discussion
Read Psalms 107:10-22

1. What prevents us from asking for redemption?
   

2. Why is redemption practically free and not scot-free?
   

3. How do we cry out to the Lord and why is it important to do it “properly”?
   

4. Why should we give God glory after being redeemed?
   

5. What is the appropriate response to being redeemed?
   What’re your favorite ways to go about doing those responses?

Breakout
Share with one another a time you went through a ‘Lifecycle of Redemption’.

Living in the Wrath of God

Introduction:

1. God Abandons a Nation That Abandons God.

   Read: Judges 10:13-14 | Hosea 4:17 | Matthew 15:12-14 | Acts 14:16

2. Why Does God Abandon a Nation? (Romans 1:18-23)

   They clearly Know about God.

   But they clearly don't Want God.

What Happens When God Abandons a Nation?

3. 3 Progressive Steps a Nation Takes When God Abandons It.
   1. First the Heart goes: Sexual Immorality. (Romans 1:24-25)
   2. Then What is Natural goes: Dishonorable Passions. (Romans 1:26-27)
   3. Finally, the Mind goes: Debased Minds. (Romans 1:28-32)

   Psalm 81:11-16 - "But my people did not listen to my voice; Israel would not submit to me. So I gave them over to their stubborn hearts, to follow their own counsels. Oh, that my people would listen to me, that Israel would walk in my ways! I would soon subdue their enemies and turn my hand against their foes. Those who hate the LORD would cringe toward him, and their fate would last forever. But he would feed you with the finest of the wheat, and with honey from the rock I would satisfy you."

Sermon Notes (PDF): BLANK
Hint: Highlight blanks above for answers!

• Audio Transcript

  00:00-00:04

  In God's Word today, we're going to be looking at some adult subject matter.

  00:04-00:11

  And as you know, if you've been coming here for any amount of time, I never plan to get any more explicit than the Word of God itself does.

  00:13-00:18

  But it does have some adult subjects here.

  00:18-00:23

  And if you would feel more comfortable for your kids to go to Harvest Kids, Mandy says bring them back.

  00:23-00:26

  And they'll be more than welcome back there.

  00:28-00:31

  Open up your Bibles with me please to Romans 1.

  00:34-00:47

  And I would ask if you would pray for me, and I will pray for you as we walk through an extremely heavy passage today.

  00:51-00:54

  This sermon was not on the preaching calendar.

  00:55-01:01

  My preaching calendar got a little adjusted when Miss Pennsylvania showed up last week.

  01:02-01:14

  So I had a rare week where I had to really seek the Lord on, "Father, what do you want these people to hear?

  01:14-01:22

  What do these people need to hear?" And the Lord showed me just one thing.

  01:24-01:27

  I certainly tried to explore other options, but the Lord brought me back to this.

  01:27-01:28

  So Romans 1.

  01:29-01:30

  We're going to get there in just a second.

  01:32-01:42

  But you know, before we look at the Word, you know, I find it interesting in our day that we're facing a global pandemic.

  01:43-01:45

  There's the big dust-up in Africa.

  01:46-01:47

  I don't know if you heard about that.

  01:47-01:58

  I was actually talking to our missionary Barnabas the other night, There have been huge storms come through and destroy some homes and do some damage to the children's home.

  01:58-02:05

  We have all these - and I personally have some friends that are going through some severe health issues right now.

  02:06-02:07

  I'm talking life and death things.

  02:08-02:18

  And in the face of all of this, it's encouraging to me that people are finally putting their priorities where they need to be.

  02:20-02:21

  You know what I'm talking about.

  02:22-02:28

  That finally, Elmer Fudd is not going to have a gun to hunt wabbits.

  02:30-02:31

  Did you see this?

  02:32-02:33

  Anybody else?

  02:33-02:33

  Show of hands.

  02:33-02:35

  Anybody else upset about this?

  02:37-02:40

  That was part of my childhood, OK?

  02:40-02:43

  And then they said, oh, by the way, PS, you're Sidney Sam, too.

  02:46-02:51

  And then I heard Paw Patrol is under attack.

  02:51-02:53

  You know, it's a show for toddlers about dogs.

  02:53-02:55

  They have the police dog.

  02:55-02:55

  What's his name?

  02:57-02:59

  Chase, okay, I know some people here are toddlers.

  02:59-03:00

  Some of you watch it.

  03:00-03:04

  Some of you watch it without your toddlers, and we love you too.

  03:06-03:08

  But I guess his name's Carl now.

  03:10-03:13

  But Paw Patrol is under attack, especially the police dog.

  03:14-03:16

  And I'm sure you've seen that Aunt Jemima was fired.

  03:18-03:21

  And that really bothered me, because I want you to think about something.

  03:23-03:25

  She was only fired because she was black.

  03:28-03:29

  True or false?

  03:30-03:35

  Well, I heard yesterday there's a rumor that they might not fire her.

  03:38-03:46

  However, they did take the Native American woman off of the Land O'Lakes butter package removed.

  03:47-03:50

  You know, this stuff is almost humorous.

  03:51-04:09

  In our day of real problems happening, and real people dying, and real racial violence, and real natural disasters, there's so much focus on cartoon characters and spokespeople for condiments.

  04:10-04:15

  And every day, when you turn on the news, it just gets crazier.

  04:16-04:18

  Cow's milk is now racist.

  04:18-04:19

  Did you see that?

  04:20-04:22

  This is something that's actually years old.

  04:22-04:31

  I'm not gonna dive into that, but I was on a Skype with some people from Johnny and Friends this past week, and they're headquartered in Columbus, Ohio.

  04:31-04:37

  And I had to ask them because there's this thing going on that they wanna rename the city of Columbus, Ohio.

  04:37-04:38

  Did you hear that?

  04:39-04:45

  Okay, do you know one of the top considerations for the new name?

  04:46-04:47

  Flavortown.

  04:49-04:50

  I'm not making that up.

  04:51-04:52

  Do you know why?

  04:52-04:56

  Because I guess once upon a time Guy Fieri called it Flavortown.

  04:56-05:00

  He also calls meatballs Flavortown, but I guess we're going to rename Columbus Flavortown.

  05:00-05:03

  And it's just, it's insanity.

  05:05-05:10

  And some of this stuff is almost funny, but I want to tell you some things that, I want to tell you some things today that aren't funny.

  05:13-05:15

  Maybe you've seen the videos online.

  05:17-05:18

  Maybe you've read some articles.

  05:19-05:20

  Maybe you've seen it on the news.

  05:22-05:38

  About a month ago, did you see in the nursing home in Detroit, a 20-year-old man viciously punching a senior citizen man face down on his bed, defenseless, picking his shots, just bellowing.

  05:38-05:38

  Did you see that?

  05:42-05:44

  I was sick.

  05:46-05:48

  That's somebody's grandfather.

  05:48-05:52

  That's somebody's dad that they put in that home to get the best care that he could.

  05:53-05:54

  Did you see that?

  05:55-06:00

  I saw a video a couple weeks ago of three men beating on a woman with a 2x4.

  06:02-06:10

  I saw a video last week of a pastor was restrained by a mob in the street while a homosexual man kissed him.

  06:10-06:11

  Did you see that?

  06:13-06:24

  I saw a video of a Macy's employee folding clothes, doing his job, sucker punched from the back, and brutally assaulted.

  06:25-06:32

  I just read yesterday that they finally, after a couple of weeks, brought the man into custody.

  06:35-06:35

  Have you seen it?

  06:36-06:38

  Riots. Statues torn down.

  06:39-06:40

  Shop owners beaten.

  06:41-06:41

  Stores looted.

  06:41-06:42

  Stores set on fire.

  06:43-06:45

  The police defunded.

  06:45-06:47

  And in Seattle, we have six blocks taken over.

  06:47-06:49

  What's it? Chaz? Chop?

  06:49-06:51

  Or what's it called this week? Anybody know?

  06:55-07:04

  And you come to church, and the preacher gets up and encourages you You need to look at things through a biblical lens, right?

  07:05-07:13

  You need to look at the world through God's eyes, through a biblical lens, and the question is how in the world do we interpret what's happening in our culture now?

  07:15-07:19

  But today I'm going to teach you something that many of you may have never heard before.

  07:21-07:22

  And that is this.

  07:22-07:28

  You're going to have to take good notes because unfortunately we had some technical difficulties, which as you know doesn't happen here too often.

  07:30-07:32

  part of being fallen people in a cursed world.

  07:33-07:35

  So take good notes.

  07:36-07:37

  But I want you to write this sentence down.

  07:37-07:37

  Are you ready?

  07:38-07:39

  Here it is.

  07:40-07:49

  "God abandons a nation that abandons God." God abandons a nation that abandons God.

  07:50-07:51

  That's letter A to that.

  07:53-07:55

  God abandons a nation that abandons God.

  07:56-07:59

  Look at Romans 1, look at verse 18.

  08:01-08:11

  It says, "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men." Stop there.

  08:13-08:14

  We're talking about God's wrath.

  08:14-08:21

  When I say God's wrath, I say, "What do you think of when you think of God's wrath?" You think of, oh, the events of the book of Revelation, right?

  08:21-08:22

  Yes, that's true.

  08:22-08:23

  That's part of God's wrath.

  08:24-08:24

  What do you think of God's wrath?

  08:24-08:27

  You're like, "Well, that's hell, right?" Yes, God's wrath, that is hell.

  08:28-08:34

  But God's wrath is also abandonment.

  08:35-08:38

  And notice what the passage says.

  08:38-08:42

  It doesn't say the wrath of God is coming someday.

  08:42-08:50

  It says the wrath of God is revealed, meaning it is here and now when these things happen that we're going to see in the passage.

  08:53-08:55

  One of the aspects of God's wrath is abandonment.

  08:56-09:00

  It's when God says, "Hey, hey, hey, nation.

  09:01-09:01

  Do you want to sin?

  09:04-09:04

  Go ahead.

  09:06-09:07

  I'll let you go.

  09:08-09:09

  I'll leave you be.

  09:10-09:11

  You want sin?

  09:12-09:12

  You don't want me?

  09:16-09:18

  I'm out." That's what we see in this passage.

  09:19-09:21

  And church, listen to me.

  09:22-09:23

  That's what you see on the news.

  09:26-09:27

  It's so obvious.

  09:29-09:30

  You know, it's sort of like this.

  09:33-09:38

  When I was in high school, I had this biology class.

  09:39-09:43

  And it was a rowdy group of kids in this class.

  09:43-09:45

  I mean, not me.

  09:45-09:48

  I was like this shy, introvert wallflower.

  09:49-09:52

  But the other kids in the class, They were pretty rowdy, right?

  09:53-09:56

  And it was this rowdy class.

  09:56-10:09

  And our teacher would come in, Mr. Sedgwick, he would come in and he'd stand up at the podium or the lectern or whatever you call it there.

  10:10-10:13

  And he'd just leave.

  10:14-10:15

  And it was a two period class.

  10:16-10:17

  You're like, where did he go?

  10:17-10:18

  I don't know.

  10:18-10:20

  He was gone for two periods.

  10:20-10:25

  Now let me ask you, I told you this was a rowdy class and that's when he was in the room.

  10:26-10:33

  What do you think happened to the class when continually he was gone for an hour and a half?

  10:33-10:34

  What do you think happened?

  10:34-10:37

  Do you think, we all learn crocheting, right?

  10:37-10:43

  And we're like, oh, you know what, now that the teacher's gone, this is our chance to really impress him when he comes back.

  10:43-10:46

  So let's get out our biology textbooks and we'll study and be ready.

  10:47-10:48

  You think that's what we did?

  10:49-10:51

  It was party time!

  10:51-10:56

  We were dancing on the tables, and we were blasting music, and we were playing dodgeball.

  10:57-11:05

  We were going nuts doing everything that we could possibly want to do as a bunch of rowdy kids.

  11:07-11:20

  You see, without the authority being in the room to give any kind of restraint, when the authority left the room, we were like, it is time to do whatever the heck we want to do.

  11:22-11:24

  And that's what we're going to see here in Romans 1.

  11:26-11:31

  As a nation, are these rowdy kids where God's presence has dwelled?

  11:31-11:38

  And we're going to see here that like the teacher, God stepped away.

  11:41-11:43

  God abandons a nation that abandons God.

  11:44-11:48

  Before we look at it in Romans, I want you to understand, This is all through Scripture.

  11:49-11:51

  I'm going to share some verses with you here very quickly.

  11:51-12:01

  This is all through Scripture, and the reason I'm sharing this with you is I don't want you to think, "Well, Pastor, Jeff just kind of pulled this one thing and went with this really crazy idea I've never heard before." This is all through Scripture.

  12:03-12:05

  You can jot the reference down, check them later.

  12:06-12:17

  Judges 10, paraphrasing, Israel was like, "God, we've sinned!" And God said, "I have saved you from so many enemies in the past." Genesis 13 and 14, Judges 10.

  12:18-12:25

  God says, "Yet you have forsaken Me and served other gods, therefore I will save you no more.

  12:28-12:31

  Go and cry out to the gods whom you have chosen.

  12:31-12:36

  Let them save you in the time of your distress." It happened in the days of judges.

  12:37-12:38

  God's like, "You know what?

  12:38-12:40

  You abandon Me, I'm done.

  12:41-12:46

  Cry out to the rocks and the sticks that you're worshiping because you didn't want me, alright?

  12:48-12:50

  Hosea 4.17, here's another one.

  12:51-13:08

  Ephraim, part of Israel, really representing Israel, says, "Ephraim is joined to idols." Now you would think the next phrase would be like, "Call him back, make him repent, do what we've got to do to get rid of the idols." That's not what it says.

  13:08-13:11

  "Ephraim is joined to idols." Next line.

  13:12-13:13

  Leave him alone.

  13:15-13:17

  You don't want God? You want your idols?

  13:18-13:31

  God's like, "Alright, have it. Have it." You're like, "Well, surely not Jesus, right?" Jot this one down. Matthew 15, verses 12-14.

  13:32-13:56

  It says, "Then the disciples came and said to Jesus," because of some teaching that Jesus just made, "Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this saying?" Therefore Jesus held a press conference where He profusely apologized for any insensitive thing that He may have said that offended the poor Pharisees.

  13:57-14:07

  And Jesus said, "Verily I say unto you, I am sorry if I caused any offense, and I will step down from my position." No, no, no, no, that's not what it says.

  14:09-14:17

  Some of you are like, "I don't think it says that." You're like, "I know it doesn't say that." So anyways, it kind of cracks me up.

  14:17-14:22

  The disciples were like, "Jesus, they were offended, Jesus.

  14:22-14:25

  You offended them." Here's what Jesus really said.

  14:25-14:32

  He answered, "Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be rooted up.

  14:33-14:40

  Leave them alone. They're blind guides." Jesus is like, "Let them go." Not, "Let's chase after them. Let's try to convince them.

  14:40-14:42

  Watch this. Jesus is like, "Let him go.

  14:44-14:54

  On your way. Toodaloo. Done." This wrath of abandonment is exactly what Romans 1 is addressing.

  14:55-14:56

  Because you're going to see it three times here.

  14:56-15:01

  Verse 24, verse 26, verse 28, it says, "God gave them up." God gave them up.

  15:01-15:02

  God gave them up.

  15:03-15:05

  That's actually a courtroom term.

  15:05-15:08

  They used it when you handed a criminal over for punishment.

  15:09-15:11

  Sentence passed. Here He is. Take Him and punish Him.

  15:12-15:13

  That's the word used.

  15:13-15:23

  That God's like, "Done. Have it." And this is nothing isolated, what's happening in our day, or even in Jesus' day, or even in a day of judges.

  15:24-15:26

  This has been consistently throughout history.

  15:27-15:28

  This very thing has happened.

  15:28-15:41

  Acts 14.16 says, "In past generations, God allowed all the nations to walk in their own ways." They've rejected what they knew of God, so God abandoned them, and...

  15:43-15:45

  That is 2020 America.

  15:47-15:57

  So what follows is Paul telling us why God abandons a culture, and then he tells us the results of a God-abandoned culture.

  15:59-16:01

  So letter A, God abandons a nation that abandons God.

  16:01-16:02

  Letter B.

  16:03-16:04

  Just write the question down.

  16:04-16:06

  Why does God abandon a nation?

  16:07-16:09

  I'm going to show you why. Look at verse 18 again.

  16:10-16:19

  It says, "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.

  16:20-16:25

  For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.

  16:27-16:41

  For His invisible attributes, namely, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived ever since the creation of the world and the things that have been made.

  16:44-16:45

  So they are without excuse.

  16:47-16:58

  For although they knew God, they did not honor Him as God, or give thanks to Him, but they became futile in their thinking and her foolish hearts were darkened.

  16:59-17:12

  Claiming to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.

  17:13-17:15

  Why does God abandon a nation?

  17:17-17:17

  Here it is.

  17:18-17:21

  They clearly know about God, but they clearly don't want God.

  17:22-17:27

  They clearly know about God, but they clearly don't want God.

  17:27-17:31

  I'm going to break that down for you, because this is what the text says, okay?

  17:34-17:37

  Break it down. First of all, they clearly know about God.

  17:39-17:43

  See, the context here, obviously, they're not talking about a personal relationship with God.

  17:43-17:45

  I mean, you obviously picked that up.

  17:46-17:52

  Paul is saying, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, They know that there is a God. Everyone does.

  17:52-18:06

  Everyone does. Your neighbor who has never been to church, the guy sitting somewhere in Africa or Thailand or India or wherever that has never been to a church, even the people that have never seen a Bible, they know that there is a God.

  18:06-18:08

  How in the world would they know that?

  18:10-18:16

  Well, verse 20 says, "Because of God's power in nature." They're seen in creation.

  18:18-18:24

  You've seen God's hand at work, and you know a lot about God even aside from your Bibles.

  18:26-18:27

  Every baby that's born.

  18:30-18:31

  Every sunset you've ever watched.

  18:33-18:34

  Every trip to the ocean.

  18:35-18:40

  You're standing on the beach and you're just like, "You know what I'm talking about?

  18:40-18:48

  You know what that 'huh' is? You know what that is?" That's a recognition of the hand of God.

  18:50-18:57

  Every wedding you've been to, we see God's hand all over creation.

  18:59-19:01

  We see it inwardly too, actually.

  19:01-19:04

  Romans 2.15 says that God's law is written on our hearts.

  19:04-19:07

  We inherently know right and wrong.

  19:07-19:08

  Where did that come from?

  19:08-19:12

  It came from the One who established morality, and it points us to Him.

  19:14-19:20

  You're like, "Okay, I kind of see what you're saying, but is it really clear that there's a God just looking at creation?

  19:21-19:28

  Is it really, really clear? I mean, how clear is it?" Verse 19 says it's plain. It's shown.

  19:29-19:31

  Verse 20 says clearly perceived.

  19:31-19:33

  Verse 20 says they're without excuse.

  19:33-19:35

  Verse 21 says they knew.

  19:39-19:43

  So according to God, their issue is not ignorance.

  19:46-19:55

  And I'm not sure, as I read this passage, and I encourage you to read it and reread it, I'm not sure if it could be any more clear than it is.

  19:56-20:01

  He's making the point to say everyone knows that there is a God. Everyone!

  20:04-20:07

  They clearly know about God, but they clearly don't want God.

  20:09-20:10

  Did you see that in the text?

  20:10-20:11

  How does that happen?

  20:11-20:16

  Verse 18 says, "It's because we suppress the truth." We have the truth.

  20:18-20:21

  We just suppress it with our selfish sin.

  20:22-20:25

  When I hear "suppress" or "suppressor," do you know what I think of?

  20:26-20:28

  I think of a gun, right?

  20:29-20:30

  What does a gun suppressor do?

  20:31-20:33

  It's an attachment you put on the end.

  20:33-20:34

  What does the gun suppressor do?

  20:35-20:36

  It quiets it down, right?

  20:37-20:41

  And that's what we do with our sin, like, "Quiet down, God. Quiet down.

  20:41-20:43

  I don't want to hear you. I don't want to..." Quiet down.

  20:44-20:47

  We are suppressing God's truth.

  20:49-20:53

  In verse 21, he tells us that, "We don't want to honor Him as God.

  20:54-20:56

  That would be to acknowledge His authority.

  20:56-20:58

  And we don't want to thank Him.

  20:58-21:01

  And that would be to acknowledge His goodness.

  21:03-21:06

  Now we're getting to how the problem manifests, right?

  21:06-21:08

  We don't want to honor Him as God, right?

  21:08-21:10

  We have this little phrase we say around here.

  21:11-21:14

  He is God and I am not, right?

  21:15-21:16

  And you get that.

  21:17-21:18

  But most people do not get that.

  21:18-21:23

  Most people live under the "nobody tells me what to do" plan of life.

  21:26-21:29

  And he says they don't thank Him.

  21:29-21:30

  They don't give thanks.

  21:32-21:34

  They eat, right?

  21:35-21:44

  And they breathe, and they get to enjoy all the good things that life has to offer with no appreciation to the One who provided these things.

  21:46-21:47

  Why?

  21:49-21:55

  Because I know that I should live a life of gratitude towards this God who has given me everything.

  21:55-22:03

  And by giving Him gratitude, that would mean acknowledging the very God that I don't want interfering with my life.

  22:06-22:09

  Verse 22, it really boils down to, "Why do I need God, right?

  22:10-22:10

  I know everything.

  22:11-22:17

  Why do I need God?" Then you get to verse 23, and it's like, you know what, I think I'll just create my own God.

  22:18-22:20

  One that's a little easier for me to follow.

  22:21-22:22

  that does what I want Him to do.

  22:26-22:29

  So you have, okay, are you with me so far?

  22:29-22:30

  Because I can start over.

  22:32-22:36

  We clearly know about God, clearly.

  22:38-22:40

  And we clearly don't want God.

  22:41-22:45

  So my question to you now at this point is, what is God to do?

  22:47-22:50

  God's up in heaven just going, "Oh, bless your hearts.

  22:52-22:54

  Just please let me know how I can bless you.

  22:55-23:03

  I await your orders." No, the Bible actually tells us exactly what He does three times.

  23:03-23:05

  Again, He gives them up. He gives them up.

  23:05-23:08

  He gives them up. "Go ahead, do life your way.

  23:08-23:18

  Since you think you don't need Me, since you think you can manage things better than Me, I go for it. I'm out.

  23:21-23:23

  God abandons a nation that abandons God.

  23:24-23:25

  That's why.

  23:26-23:31

  They clearly know about God, but they clearly do not want God.

  23:34-23:37

  So the question is, what happens when God abandons a nation?

  23:39-23:42

  What happens when God says, "I'm out. I'm done.

  23:43-23:44

  I brought this down, letter C.

  23:46-23:53

  There's three progressive steps that a nation takes when God abandons it.

  23:53-23:55

  And that's what follows in the text, okay?

  23:57-23:59

  When God says, "I'm out. You don't want me.

  24:01-24:05

  Good luck." There's three steps that a nation goes through.

  24:07-24:10

  And understand that these steps don't happen overnight.

  24:10-24:12

  are things that build up over decades.

  24:13-24:13

  Right?

  24:16-24:19

  How long have we been hearing about this church?

  24:19-24:21

  They took prayer out of schools.

  24:23-24:34

  They're like, "We don't want God in our schools." And they take the Ten Commandments out of the public square because we don't want God's Word in a place where we see it.

  24:36-24:45

  This isn't anything new, that's been building and building, and you're going to see the sequence that He lays out.

  24:47-24:48

  It's a three-step thing.

  24:50-24:54

  Under letter C, number 1, write this down.

  24:55-24:56

  First, the heart goes.

  24:59-25:00

  First, the heart goes!

  25:01-25:02

  And that's sexual immorality.

  25:04-25:05

  Look at verses 24 and 25.

  25:06-25:07

  First, the heart goes.

  25:08-25:09

  Sexual immorality.

  25:12-25:29

  "Clearly know about God, clearly don't want God." Verse 24, "Therefore, God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves." That's sexual immorality.

  25:30-25:38

  It says, "because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator and is blessed forever.

  25:39-25:39

  Amen.

  25:40-25:41

  First, the heart goes. Right?

  25:43-25:45

  See, lusts dominate our hearts.

  25:47-25:51

  But when people decide, "You know what? I'm done wrestling with that.

  25:51-25:53

  I'm done struggling with that.

  25:53-26:01

  I'm done seeking any type of self-control that only God's Holy Spirit gives." What does it lead to?

  26:01-26:02

  Just unrestrained.

  26:02-26:03

  Unrestrained.

  26:04-26:06

  It's like I have been let off the leash.

  26:09-26:12

  And the lust in my heart turns into lust released in my body.

  26:13-26:14

  Do I have to sell anybody on this?

  26:15-26:16

  Really?

  26:17-26:24

  Do I need to convince anyone that's sitting here or watching this online or listening later or whatever?

  26:26-26:31

  Our culture has become dogs seeking dogs in heat.

  26:31-26:32

  That's what our culture has become.

  26:35-26:36

  There's an app for that.

  26:38-26:39

  Several, actually.

  26:39-26:45

  You can use your phone and you can find people to have a relationship with.

  26:45-26:48

  And I don't mean a dating relationship.

  26:48-26:51

  I mean a time of intimacy.

  26:54-26:55

  Just by finding them on your phone.

  26:59-27:01

  in a pornographic culture.

  27:02-27:05

  And a pornographic culture destroys marriages.

  27:05-27:06

  It abuses children.

  27:06-27:08

  It traffics little babies!

  27:10-27:14

  Meanwhile, God has this plan for marriage and sexuality.

  27:14-27:17

  And what does the abandoned culture do about that?

  27:17-27:18

  They laugh at that.

  27:18-27:20

  "Ha! Joke, dog! Man!

  27:21-27:22

  That's a big joke!

  27:22-27:24

  Really? Really?

  27:24-27:25

  Monogamy? Really?

  27:26-27:39

  That's what you're doing?" It's a joke. It's a joke. You see, first the heart goes. Sexual immorality.

  27:40-27:53

  Number two, then, jot this down, then what is natural goes. Then what is natural goes.

  27:54-27:55

  to dishonorable passions.

  27:58-27:59

  Look at verses 26 and 27.

  28:00-28:05

  It says, "For this reason, God gave them up to dishonorable passions.

  28:06-28:13

  For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature.

  28:14-28:28

  And the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another." Men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

  28:29-28:33

  So the next step is perversion.

  28:34-28:44

  That sexual sin goes from typical man-to-woman type sin - sexual sin - to same-sex relationship.

  28:46-28:51

  And for all of those people who say, You know, the Bible never says homosexuality is wrong.

  28:54-28:57

  Once again, I would say I'm not sure how this passage could be any more clear.

  28:59-28:59

  Three times.

  29:00-29:06

  Three times right in these couple verses that we read, God says this isn't natural.

  29:07-29:10

  Like, Pastor Jeff, are you saying that homosexuality isn't natural?

  29:11-29:12

  God's saying that, okay?

  29:13-29:16

  And I can't believe that I even have to sell people on that.

  29:17-29:18

  It's not natural.

  29:19-29:21

  It's not how we were created.

  29:23-29:26

  But he says, you know, you get the due penalty for that, right?

  29:27-29:35

  And that's why you see, even in the homosexual community, there's already the reaping of some of the consequences.

  29:36-29:41

  Venereal disease, unfulfilled relationships, unsatisfied relationships.

  29:41-29:53

  I could go on and on about the testimonies and stories heard of people that have come out of that culture and just have talked about what a horrific life experience it really is.

  29:56-29:57

  But, here we are.

  29:59-30:01

  We're concluding Pride Month this week, by the way.

  30:04-30:07

  And I will say this, that's actually a very appropriate name.

  30:09-30:18

  For a culture that rejects God, and a culture that has been rejected by God, A culture that says, "Hey, hey, hey, hey, we are proud of ourselves.

  30:19-30:20

  Look what we have become.

  30:20-30:22

  Look how woke we are.

  30:22-30:28

  We are so proud of ourselves." Here we are.

  30:29-30:31

  First the heart goes, that's sexual immorality.

  30:31-30:33

  Then what is natural goes, that's dishonorable passions.

  30:34-30:39

  Thirdly, write this down, finally the mind goes.

  30:43-30:43

  Debased minds.

  30:46-30:47

  Finally, the mind goes.

  30:48-30:50

  Debased minds. Look at verse 28.

  30:51-31:06

  It says, "And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done." You know what that word "debased" means?

  31:07-31:14

  "Debased" means you test something and you find that it's worthless, right?

  31:15-31:23

  Kind of like you have a flashlight that doesn't light and you check the bulb and you check the batteries and still don't light and you're like, my conclusion is this thing is worthless and you throw it away.

  31:24-31:27

  That's what is being used to describe people's minds.

  31:28-31:30

  Their minds are completely useless.

  31:31-31:35

  Do you realize nothing good is being produced from their heads?

  31:36-31:42

  You know, at the beginning of this message, I was talking about all this insane stuff that we're seeing in our culture.

  31:43-31:47

  Like, and I've had so many people ask me like, you know, what's going on?

  31:47-31:47

  What's wrong?

  31:47-31:49

  Can't people see this as crazy?

  31:49-31:51

  Why is the world so backwards?

  31:51-31:52

  Why is this bizarre world?

  31:52-31:54

  Why is this upside down world?

  31:54-31:56

  I've heard all these terms, people asking me.

  31:56-31:57

  And the answer is right here.

  32:00-32:02

  It's because God says, go ahead, do your thing.

  32:03-32:05

  And the result is a useless mind.

  32:07-32:10

  And when you have a useless mind, Guess what kind of stuff comes out?

  32:12-32:12

  Insanity!

  32:14-32:20

  Irrational, unreasonable garbage that you can go home and turn on your TV and watch it live 24/7.

  32:22-32:30

  By the way, this is the worst part because when the mind is gone, there's no turning back.

  32:33-32:38

  You get to the point that what is perverse is promoted.

  32:39-32:42

  And what is decent is denounced.

  32:44-33:00

  That's why he says in verse 28, "They did not see fit to acknowledge God." You know, there's a phrase I've heard thrown around today, in our day rather, of some things that are happening.

  33:00-33:04

  It's called "cancel culture." Have you heard that phrase, "cancel culture"?

  33:04-33:05

  How many of you have heard that?

  33:06-33:08

  Okay, looks like most of you have.

  33:11-33:16

  Actually, there's a word missing from that phrase.

  33:19-33:21

  Actually, a name is missing from that phrase.

  33:21-33:21

  It's Jesus.

  33:22-33:24

  We really live in the "cancel Jesus" culture.

  33:27-33:35

  Or if you're really into the two-word phrase, we can just call it the "abandoned culture." I still have to sell you on this.

  33:37-33:38

  Is this really America?

  33:39-33:40

  Is this what you see on TV?

  33:40-33:42

  We're going to look at the rest of these verses here, okay?

  33:43-33:52

  And as we look at these verses, I just want you to ask yourself, if you're still not sold on any of this, when you see this description, ask yourself, is this what I see on TV?

  33:52-33:54

  Is this what I see on social media?

  33:55-33:56

  Look at verse 29.

  33:57-34:07

  It says, "They were filled All manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice.

  34:10-34:15

  They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness.

  34:17-34:26

  They are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, Insolent.

  34:27-34:28

  Haughty.

  34:29-34:30

  Boastful.

  34:32-34:34

  Inventors of evil.

  34:35-34:36

  Wrap your brain around that one.

  34:36-34:38

  Like, you know the ways that we usually sin?

  34:38-34:39

  Kind of getting old.

  34:40-34:43

  Let's make up some new perverse ways to sin.

  34:44-34:45

  That's what that means.

  34:45-34:46

  Inventors of evil.

  34:46-34:47

  Wow.

  34:48-34:49

  Disobedient to parents.

  34:51-34:51

  Foolish.

  34:52-34:53

  Faithless.

  34:54-34:57

  heartless, ruthless.

  35:01-35:11

  Though they know God's decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them, but give approval to those who practice them.

  35:14-35:22

  You know, I see that phrase "ruthless." A month ago, maybe you saw this story.

  35:24-35:31

  a 35-year-old mother of a 9-year-old nonverbal autistic kid.

  35:34-35:43

  Took him to a body of water, this community center, whatever, and threw him in. He couldn't swim. She threw him in.

  35:43-35:45

  And there were people that were watching.

  35:46-36:16

  And they were like, "Why isn't she trying to get him out of the water?" ran down and dragged this nine-year-old nonverbal autistic kid out of the water, saved his life. Soon after, the woman took her son to a lake at a golf course and and succeeded that time.

  36:17-36:18

  Killed her own child.

  36:23-36:29

  A kid who looks to the one person on earth that he should be able to trust, right?

  36:31-36:31

  His mother.

  36:33-36:36

  His last memory on this earth is her killing him.

  36:39-36:50

  So when the Bible says that a culture that's abandoned becomes ruthless, that's not hyperbole.

  36:52-36:54

  That's not sort of overstating the fact.

  36:57-36:58

  How ruthless?

  37:00-37:03

  About a mother murdering her special needs child.

  37:08-37:13

  and you saw the bottom of the barrel of sewage.

  37:15-37:18

  It's like you know when a culture has really been abandoned by God.

  37:18-37:19

  You know.

  37:20-37:21

  Did you see it?

  37:22-37:35

  Because not only are they doing these horrible, evil things, but give approval to those who practice them.

  37:37-37:45

  People are not only sinning, but they are also cheering on others who are sinning.

  37:47-37:51

  We talked about the unnatural aspect of the homosexual relationship.

  37:55-37:56

  What's the culture's response to it?

  37:57-38:13

  "Hey, let's have parades." You know what, I'm going to show my personal approval by changing my Facebook profile pic to a rainbow this month to show my approval.

  38:15-38:26

  I read last week an article about Disney and Sesame Street taking steps to really promote the LBQT, whatever the initials are.

  38:27-38:29

  Disney and Sesame Street.

  38:32-38:44

  I don't even understand what business they would have in doing that aside from God abandoned the nation and everybody's lost their minds.

  38:45-38:55

  So the people that are supposed to teach children how to count and learn their letters teaching toddlers about homosexual relationships, really?

  38:57-39:08

  And some of the cultural icons that have the biggest platforms, the athletes, the actors, the musicians, they're the people often that are promoting sin the loudest.

  39:10-39:18

  And I'll be honest with you, when it comes to the athletes, the actors, the musicians, whatever, I have low expectations for a lot of them.

  39:21-39:24

  God help the churches that are flying the rainbow flags right now.

  39:28-39:30

  These churches should be praying for repentance.

  39:31-39:36

  These churches should be seeking to point lost people to Jesus Christ for healing.

  39:37-39:38

  And what are the churches doing instead?

  39:40-39:44

  We applaud you and we stand with you and we stand for you.

  39:44-39:45

  God help us.

  39:49-39:51

  And you're like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, hang on Pastor Jeff.

  39:51-39:52

  We love those people?

  39:53-39:56

  Yes, absolutely, absolutely.

  39:56-40:02

  We should be loving these people and we should be intentionally looking for ways to love these people, absolutely.

  40:03-40:08

  But love does not equal, I applaud everything you do.

  40:10-40:10

  You know who gets that?

  40:11-40:12

  Parents, parents get that.

  40:13-40:14

  Do you love your kids?

  40:15-40:18

  Does loving your kids mean that you applaud and approve of every single thing they do and say?

  40:19-40:22

  No! Loving them means you point them to Christ!

  40:23-40:25

  You encourage them towards righteousness.

  40:28-40:32

  Loving does not mean I applaud what you do, even if God's Word condemns it.

  40:32-40:37

  I don't understand how that became the definition of love.

  40:37-40:39

  But for a lot of people, that's what it is.

  40:44-40:44

  There it is.

  40:46-40:49

  There's the description of what happens when a culture rejects God.

  40:53-40:56

  And He returns the favor.

  40:59-41:02

  He simply abandons the culture.

  41:02-41:05

  He simply abandons the nation that doesn't want Him.

  41:06-41:12

  And church, that is a most horrifying kind of wrath.

  41:15-41:17

  And we're immersed in it right now.

  41:19-41:20

  It's sexually perverse.

  41:21-41:22

  It's violent.

  41:23-41:24

  It's ruthless.

  41:27-41:28

  And it's proud.

  41:30-41:34

  So, what do we do about that?

  41:37-41:40

  I'm going to ask you to turn to another passage in your Bible.

  41:40-41:41

  I don't often do that.

  41:41-41:43

  We usually stay in a passage.

  41:43-41:47

  but I'm going to ask you to turn back to Psalm 81.

  41:49-41:54

  Psalm 81, verse 11.

  41:58-42:11

  You're like, "So what do we do? What do we do, Jeff?" Well, I would say, well, let's look at what God says to do. Right?

  42:14-42:15

  Let's look at these verses.

  42:16-42:18

  See if this sounds at all familiar.

  42:19-42:23

  Verse 11, "But my people did not listen to my voice.

  42:24-42:42

  Israel would not submit to me." 1st 12, "So I gave them over to their stubborn hearts, to follow their own counsels." See, there it is again, the sin of abandonment.

  42:42-42:43

  God's like, "Oh, you want to sin? Go ahead.

  42:44-42:52

  You don't want Me. Okay." But here it is, verse 13, listen.

  42:53-42:56

  Oh, that my people would listen to me.

  43:00-43:02

  That Israel would walk in my ways.

  43:04-43:08

  I would soon subdue their enemies and turn my hand against their foes.

  43:10-43:27

  Those who hate the Lord would cringe toward Him, and their fate would last forever, but He would feed you with the finest of the wheat, And with honey from the rock, I would satisfy you." So that was the introduction.

  43:28-43:29

  Here's the sermon.

  43:32-43:51

  God told Israel that when you're in a culture, a nation, that won't listen to God, won't submit to God, and God gives you over to your sin, and you end up following your own counsels, what does he tell his people to do?

  43:52-44:14

  He says, "Listen to me, and walk in my ways." In other words, church, for God's people, for us, He's calling us to hear the Word of God and respond to it.

  44:18-44:20

  Hear the Word of God and respond to it.

  44:20-44:23

  You know, you're not responsible for what other people are out there doing.

  44:27-44:29

  But you absolutely are responsible for what you're doing.

  44:32-44:34

  Are you seeking the Lord in your own walk right now?

  44:36-44:38

  It's easy to point the finger at other people's sin.

  44:39-44:40

  What about your sin?

  44:43-44:47

  Are you suppressing God's truth to try to excuse your sin?

  44:51-44:52

  You've got to seek the Lord in your own walk.

  44:54-44:57

  You've got to respond by loving people and sharing Christ with them.

  45:00-45:02

  You have a message right now.

  45:02-45:07

  You have the gospel message that will totally transform somebody's life.

  45:08-45:10

  Are you giving it to them?

  45:14-45:26

  And certainly, last and I would say most important, we need to pray on behalf of a people who are destroying themselves.

  45:27-45:32

  Not just in this life, but destroying themselves for eternity.

  45:34-45:37

  As our worship team comes forward, we're going to do that now.

  45:37-45:38

  I just ask you to bow your heads.

  45:42-45:46

  Father in heaven, we cry out to you now.

  45:50-45:58

  That Father, we are a nation that has been suppressing you for decades.

  46:01-46:07

  And all of this stuff that we're seeing happening right now, Father, is the reward that we get.

  46:11-46:13

  Father, we cry out for this nation.

  46:16-46:18

  We cry out for this church.

  46:20-46:39

  Father, we cry out for the families in their neighborhoods, in their workplaces, in their schools that are navigating through a world of depraved minds.

  46:40-46:42

  A world of debased minds.

  46:46-46:50

  Father, let us be a people that hear Your Word and respond.

  46:53-46:55

  And however You would see fit to use us, Father.

  47:00-47:00

  Open the door.

  47:01-47:01

  Show us.

  47:02-47:03

  Guide us.

  47:03-47:04

  Empower us.

  47:04-47:05

  Give us opportunity.

  47:06-47:07

  Give us boldness.

  47:07-47:14

  Give us much grace and truth to a nation that so desperately needs both.

  47:17-47:22

  In the name of our King, Jesus Christ, our Lord, our Savior, forever.

  47:23-47:23

  Amen.

Small Group Discussion
Read Romans 1:18-23

1. What was your big “take-away” from this passage / message?
   

2. Have you heard of this aspect of God’s wrath (abandonment) previously? If not, what is your initial response to this concept?
   

3. Read Romans 1:19-20 again. How is it that everyone is “without excuse” when it comes to knowing there is a God? Explain how people know of God’s existence solely through creation.
   

4. What is the connection between giving thanks and having faith (Romans 1:21)?
   

5. Explain, briefly and in your own words, the progression that takes place when God “gives up” a nation (Romans 1:24-32). What can we do about it as a church?
   

Breakout
Pray for our nation, using Psalm 81:11-16 as your guide.

Questions from the Congregation - Part 13

Note: The time signatures [00:00] below indicate the start of a question if you'd like to skip to a particular one of interest in the audio file.

Q: How can we as Christians actively combat white privilege and racism? How are we at Harvest able to make a difference despite the lack of diversity in our church and immediate community?

A: See Acts 17:26 - And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place…

Ephesians 2:13-16 - But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility.

Revelation 5:9-10 - And they sang a new song, saying, “Worthy are you to take the scroll and to open its seals, for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God from every tribe and language and people and nation, and you have made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they shall reign on the earth.”

Any question that was missed due to time constraints during the service Pastor Jeff will address the answer on the blog.

Sermon Notes (PDF): BLANK
Hint: Highlight blanks above for answers!

• Audio Transcript

  Pastor Jeff:

  00:00-00:07

  Yeah, this is a first as Dr. Andrew said this is a first for us bonus Q&A day because we always get a lot of good questions

  Mark Ort:

  00:07-00:13

  Well, we every every time we have Q&A day I look at them ahead of time and I'm like man, these are really good

  Pastor Jeff:

  00:13-00:52

  and there was there was a question it came this time that Generated a lot of conversation and I know the men in our small group it generated some conversation with us and just hearing some feedback from people, this question in particular that we're going to be looking at today, it's very timely. And speaking with our elders about the question and where we are as a culture, the elders really felt like it would be a bad thing to try to squeeze this in with however many other questions we answered last week.

  Pastor Jeff:

  00:52-01:23

  You know, it just wouldn't be right. So we thought in light of everything that's happening today. Let's spend Let's let's spend a whole morning talking about this from a biblical gospel perspective. So here's the question Oh, by the way Tiffany is gracious enough. She's going to take questions at the end and you can brave huh, so So you can text your question or I will pass around the mic but you can text it to that number there and Mr. Wolski will get that.

  Pastor Jeff:

  01:25-01:28

  So ask away. Tiffany said don't be shy, right? You're not going to be offended.

  Pastor Jeff:

  01:28-01:32

  So that's why you're here, is to answer these questions.

  Pastor Jeff:

  01:32-01:35

  So let's start with the question. Can we get it up there?

  Pastor Jeff:

  01:35-01:40

  This is the question that we deliberately did not get to last week.

  Pastor Jeff:

  01:40-01:47

  How can we as Christians actively combat white privilege and racism?

  Pastor Jeff:

  01:48-01:56

  How are we at Harvest able to make a difference despite the lack of diversity in our church and immediate community?

  Pastor Jeff:

  01:56-02:01

  So, Harvest Bible Chapel, Bible is our middle name.

  Pastor Jeff:

  02:01-02:04

  So, let's start with the Bible's answer to racism, right?

  Pastor Jeff:

  02:06-02:10

  Racism, really biblically, it's two things.

  Pastor Jeff:

  02:11-02:16

  It's ignorance for one, and it's hateful for another.

  Pastor Jeff:

  02:17-02:19

  And I want to show you some passages here.

  Pastor Jeff:

  02:20-02:28

  Acts 17, this is Paul in Athens, addressing people that had all these idols, and they didn't know the one true God.

  Pastor Jeff:

  02:28-02:29

  They worshipped anything and everything.

  Pastor Jeff:

  02:30-02:32

  And Paul was telling them about the one true God.

  Pastor Jeff:

  02:32-02:33

  Look at what he said about the one true God.

  Pastor Jeff:

  02:33-02:57

  "And He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined a lot of periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place." So when I say racism is ignorance, biblically as Christians, especially people that say we know the Word of God, you have to see that the Bible makes it clear that God made everyone from one man, really from one man and woman, Adam and Eve.

  Pastor Jeff:

  02:58-03:00

  So essentially, we're all related.

  Pastor Jeff:

  03:01-03:03

  And I don't even mean essentially, but literally.

  Pastor Jeff:

  03:03-03:10

  We are all related because we all came from the same physical parents, alright?

  Pastor Jeff:

  03:11-03:13

  So, Ephesians 2.

  Pastor Jeff:

  03:15-03:18

  Another passage. I'm going to go through this quickly here.

  Pastor Jeff:

  03:19-03:20

  Because you hear me every week.

  Pastor Jeff:

  03:20-04:03

  "But now in Christ Jesus, you who are once far off, have been brought near by the blood of Christ, for He Himself is our peace, who has made us both one, and has broken down in His flesh the dividing wall of hostility by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances that He might create in Himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility." Now, in the immediate context of Ephesians 2, he's talking about Jews and Gentiles, but you obviously see the broader principle, that God's desire through Jesus Christ is to make all people one in the church.

  Pastor Jeff:

  04:03-04:21

  In the church, it doesn't matter what your ethnic background is, or your economic background. In the church we are all on equal footing because how's the old expression go? The ground is level with the cross, right? And that's how God designed it to be. So, Ephesians chapter 2 and one more verse.

  Pastor Jeff:

  04:21-04:33

  Revelation, two more verses, 5 verses 9 through 10. I love this. We went through Revelation here, was that last year? Okay. So you remember this well. Jeff, you don't even remember this.

  Pastor Jeff:

  04:34-04:39

  This is Revelation 5. John got to see behind the curtain in heaven.

  Pastor Jeff:

  04:40-05:01

  They sang a new song, saying, "Worthy are you to take the scroll and open its seals, for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people from God." Look at this. "From every tribe and language and people and nation, and you have made them a kingdom and priesthood of our God, and they shall reign on the earth." So understand again, God's purpose in the Gospel is to bring people from...

  Pastor Jeff:

  05:01-05:05

  Do you see that? Every tribe, language, people, nation.

  Pastor Jeff:

  05:06-05:08

  You know, that's God's goal in Christ.

  Pastor Jeff:

  05:09-05:18

  So, racism biblically is ignorant, because you're ignorant of God's design, and you're ignorant of God's ultimate plan, but it's also hateful.

  Pastor Jeff:

  05:18-05:24

  We talked about that a couple of weeks ago in John 8, when Jesus was talking to religious leaders, and He said, "No, no, no.

  Pastor Jeff:

  05:26-05:32

  God is not your Father. Satan is your Father, because he's a murderer, and you're just as hateful as him, I'm paraphrasing.

  Pastor Jeff:

  05:33-05:35

  So, that's the biblical answer.

  Pastor Jeff:

  05:35-05:38

  Why are we dedicating a whole day to this?

  Pastor Jeff:

  05:38-05:44

  I just, you know, jotted some things down here, if you're wondering, like, I don't really see why we have a whole day dedicated to this question.

  Pastor Jeff:

  05:45-05:47

  Well, number one, the question was asked, all right?

  Pastor Jeff:

  05:47-05:50

  Somebody posed a question, and that leads to number two.

  Pastor Jeff:

  05:50-05:55

  It resulted in a lot of conversations happening as a result.

  Pastor Jeff:

  05:55-06:06

  But the reason this is happening is, where else are you going to go for a word on how to navigate through such a racially tense culture?

  Pastor Jeff:

  06:07-06:08

  Like, where are you going to go? CNN?

  Pastor Jeff:

  06:09-06:13

  You're going to look up some knucklehead friends from high school and see their opinion on Facebook?

  Pastor Jeff:

  06:14-06:26

  Like, "Yeah, I'm trying to figure out how..." No, the church should be the place that says, "Thus saith the Lord." And this is how we respond to racism in our culture.

  Pastor Jeff:

  06:28-06:30

  Real, perceived, whatever.

  Pastor Jeff:

  06:30-06:32

  This is how we respond.

  Pastor Jeff:

  06:33-06:35

  So, all that to say...

  Pastor Jeff:

  06:35-06:38

  And by the way, we usually set a timer, and the timer did not even start yet.

  Pastor Jeff:

  06:38-06:39

  This was all free.

  Pastor Jeff:

  06:41-06:51

  And you're like, "And I feel like I got what I paid for." So the question is, "Okay, Pastor Jeff, so why is Tiffany here?" I want to explain how this happened because I know how this looks.

  Pastor Jeff:

  06:52-07:14

  We're like, well we could address race with a couple of middle-aged white guys, but we're just going to find a random black person. That's not at all how this happened. Mark is so studious, all right? That's one of the things I love about him. And when this question came, he said, "I want to talk to a black Christian about this question." And he knew Tiffany because Tiffany is his daughter's dance instructor, right?

  Pastor Jeff:

  07:15-07:46

  So, he had this conversation with Tiffany, and Mark calls me up, he's like, "Dude, we're gonna see if Tiffany will come to the church "and share some of the things she shared with me." So then, was it last Monday, we talked on the phone, and I'm like, "Yeah, we gotta get her, "maybe it was two Mondays ago, "we gotta get her to church and share these things, "because you have a great perspective." So, I'm going to shut up now, and Tiffany, we would like you, please, before we get into some of these issues and questions, would you please just sort of take five minutes and introduce yourself?

  Pastor Jeff:

  07:46-07:53

  And I know you have an amazing story and it's tough to boil it down, but we wanna get to some of these racial issues.

  Pastor Jeff:

  07:53-08:00

  Can you give just a little bit of background, your testimony and introduce us to yourself?

  Tiffany Seitz:

  08:00-08:02

  Sure, well, hello everybody.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  08:02-08:04

  It's really nice to be with you this Sunday morning.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  08:05-08:11

  I'm like really refreshed to be back in church because this is the first time in probably about three months that I've woken up before 8 a.m.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  08:11-08:14

  And this is the first time in over three months that I've been in church.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  08:14-08:18

  So I am so, so, so excited to be here with you all this morning.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  08:19-08:21

  So thank you so much for having me.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  08:22-08:24

  Just a little bit about myself.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  08:24-08:29

  I like to tell people that I'm a lot more exciting in pictures, which is kind of the truth.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  08:29-08:31

  But I'm excited to be here with you guys live this morning.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  08:31-08:32

  But a little bit about me.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  08:32-08:34

  I'm from Pittsburgh, born and raised.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  08:34-08:39

  As a matter of fact, there's a little pierogi shop up the street that my family and I frequent for Pierogi Thursday.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  08:41-08:45

  But I was born and raised here, so my story is like-- it's not complicated.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  08:45-08:48

  It's just starts out differently than everybody else's.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  08:48-08:49

  But I am adopted.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  08:49-08:54

  I was adopted when I was 2 and 1/2, but I had been coming with my parents since I was an infant.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  08:55-09:01

  So at two weeks, I was born addicted to cocaine, and I was not expected to live beyond two weeks.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  09:01-09:08

  And doctors told me that if I did live beyond two weeks, then I was looking at a myriad of complications into my adult life.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  09:08-09:11

  And so they said that I wouldn't live to see my first birthday.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  09:12-09:14

  So almost 25 years later, here I am.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  09:14-09:14

  Hello.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  09:15-09:15

  Surprise.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  09:18-09:26

  But I share that because it's not anything that I did or my parents did, but it's really just like the hand of God in my life, which I love to share.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  09:27-09:28

  So that's really incredible.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  09:28-09:40

  And not only was I Lexi's freshman roommate or Andrew Roop's classmate when I was in high school or Livvy's dance teacher, nowadays I'm most notably known for being Miss Pennsylvania.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  09:41-09:44

  So if you Google me, that might be the first thing to come up.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  09:44-09:45

  So that's kind of cool.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  09:46-09:47

  That is really cool.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  09:47-09:47

  Yeah, it's cool.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  09:48-10:00

  But I've traveled over, let's see, 30,000-- 35,000 miles across the state of Pennsylvania talking about adoption and foster care, why it's important, and how it's affected my life, and how it can improve the lives of others.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  10:00-10:02

  So I've had the pleasure of doing that this year.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  10:02-10:06

  And I will be the first person in history to do this twice because of the pandemic, sadly.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  10:07-10:12

  So our national leadership has encouraged us to hold all state competitions in the year 2021.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  10:13-10:15

  So I will be Miss Pennsylvania for another year.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  10:15-10:16

  Wow.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  10:17-10:17

  Yeah.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  10:18-10:22

  You know, something that doesn't happen very often or ever.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  10:22-10:24

  I was totally confused.

  Pastor Jeff:

  10:24-10:25

  I thought it was like boxing.

  Pastor Jeff:

  10:26-10:28

  I thought somebody had to beat you to get your title.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  10:29-10:30

  Well, usually that is how it works.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  10:31-10:33

  But in this case, no.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  10:33-10:33

  No.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  10:34-10:34

  Sadly, no.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  10:35-10:37

  But, you know, so yeah, I've gotten to address that.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  10:37-10:38

  So you can say,

  Pastor Jeff:

  10:38-10:39

  like, yay pandemic, right?

  Pastor Jeff:

  10:40-10:40

  'Cause you get-- - I

  Tiffany Seitz:

  10:40-10:41

  guess so, you know what?

  Tiffany Seitz:

  10:41-10:44

  There are good things to come out of even the worst seasons of life.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  10:44-10:48

  I think we've seen so much going on in the world, and I think it's really easy to focus on the negative.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  10:49-10:57

  And I know, like, when we were cooped up in our houses for like 45 days, that's really all we did, was we like, you know, watched the news, read USA Today, whatever news source we could get.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  10:58-11:00

  And that's really all that was coming at us.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  11:00-11:03

  But I think it's so important to analyze those things, that I get to do this for another year.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  11:03-11:05

  So I guess that's like a good thing for me.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  11:05-11:06

  That is a good thing.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  11:06-11:11

  But it gives me another year to kind of, you know, just to continue to make a difference across the state, which I'm really excited about.

  Mark Ort:

  11:12-11:19

  When I, not to interrupt you, but when I first heard that you were gonna do this a second year, my immediate thought was Esther in the Bible.

  Mark Ort:

  11:20-11:28

  It's like, you were born for such a time as this, and God is putting you there to influence and do the things that you do for another year.

  Mark Ort:

  11:28-11:29

  That's

  Pastor Jeff:

  11:29-11:29

  right.

  Mark Ort:

  11:29-11:30

  That's pretty

  Pastor Jeff:

  11:30-11:30

  cool.

  Pastor Jeff:

  11:30-11:31

  That is really cool.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  11:31-11:33

  Absolutely, I think that's perhaps the most exciting.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  11:33-11:53

  I know that when I was going into Miss America back in December, I did some reading in the book of Esther and I loved, there's a verse in there in chapter two that says, "Esther found favor with everybody who saw her." And so, that's just my prayer as I go about this year that I find favor with God and that's, He's gonna use me in ways that I wasn't able to be used this year.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  11:53-11:56

  So I'm excited for the victory lap here.

  Pastor Jeff:

  11:57-11:58

  That is fantastic.

  Pastor Jeff:

  11:58-12:04

  All right, Tiffany, so I guess since you're here, Answer this question for us.

  Pastor Jeff:

  12:04-12:05

  Can we get that question back up?

  Pastor Jeff:

  12:06-12:11

  How can we-- now there's actually two questions here, so let's just break it down here one at a time.

  Pastor Jeff:

  12:12-12:17

  How can we as Christians actively combat white privilege and racism?

  Pastor Jeff:

  12:17-12:18

  How would you respond to that?

  Tiffany Seitz:

  12:18-12:29

  I think, personally speaking, acknowledging the fact that racism indeed does exist, and it is a mindset that has sadly plagued our nation for a long time, like over 400 years.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  12:29-12:33

  So I mean, there's a historical context to racism that I think bears some understanding.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  12:33-12:42

  And I think once we have a grasp on that and an understanding of that, it's gonna help us be able to, how are we gonna combat that in our personal lives?

  Tiffany Seitz:

  12:42-12:45

  Because I think per person, it's gonna make a difference.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  12:45-12:47

  We're not all the same people sitting in this room.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  12:47-12:50

  We don't have the same way of going about things.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  12:50-13:00

  But I think that we, it really, it deserves some time to understand and how we in our personal lives can go about how to fix that.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  13:00-13:08

  So, again, like I say, I've said this to so many people who have asked me a similar question or a question such as this, you cannot cure ignorance in the masses.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  13:09-13:16

  And I think as we do a heart check and as we look on the inside, or what are things that I can change and how can I combat this when I see it?

  Tiffany Seitz:

  13:16-13:22

  I think first of all, acknowledging the fact that it is a relevant thing to talk about, it is something that still exists.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  13:22-13:27

  But as we handle that in our day-to-day lives, as we see it, it's gonna look different from person to person.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  13:27-13:34

  So I think doing your own research and, you know, just getting with God and saying, what can I do, I think is the first step to that.

  Pastor Jeff:

  13:35-13:38

  It's funny, you said something that actually had in my notes here.

  Pastor Jeff:

  13:39-13:40

  Everybody comes from different contexts, right?

  Pastor Jeff:

  13:41-13:43

  We all have different backgrounds.

  Pastor Jeff:

  13:43-13:49

  Some of us maybe were raised in a home where there was, you know, we saw racism in our parents and maybe not.

  Pastor Jeff:

  13:51-13:59

  But one of the things that I wanted to ask you was what about the person that says, I don't really see racism as an issue?

  Pastor Jeff:

  14:00-14:14

  Because you said, we've been battling it for 400 years, but I think there are a lot of people, and I shared this with you on the phone, I would be more in that camp because of some of my background, some of the people that I associated with and toured with and traveled with.

  Pastor Jeff:

  14:16-14:19

  I didn't see racism as being an issue.

  Pastor Jeff:

  14:19-14:22

  And like I shared with you, I would lean more towards that way.

  Pastor Jeff:

  14:23-14:28

  And I made note of this, what was this, couple summers ago, Aaron, we were in Kennywood.

  Pastor Jeff:

  14:28-14:38

  We noticed there were so many blended, I don't know the right term, I don't wanna say the wrong thing, but we saw a lot of black women, white men.

  Pastor Jeff:

  14:38-14:44

  We saw, in line behind us, there was a white couple that had adopted a whole bunch of black children.

  Pastor Jeff:

  14:45-14:47

  And we saw so much of that at Kennywood.

  Pastor Jeff:

  14:48-14:56

  I don't know if I was looking for it that day, but I just remember my wife and I commenting, It's just really refreshing because you have people who are like, people are so racist.

  Pastor Jeff:

  14:56-15:01

  I'm like, you couldn't come to Kennywood today and make that case because it just seemed like that was everywhere.

  Pastor Jeff:

  15:02-15:14

  All that to say, Tiffany, you know, I'm sure there are some of us like, how I would lean to say, I don't really see racism as the issue that some people make it out to be.

  Pastor Jeff:

  15:15-15:16

  How would you respond to that?

  Tiffany Seitz:

  15:17-15:21

  I think for me, my perspective on this is a little bit different because my parents are white.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  15:22-15:25

  So for me, I'm seeing it like a little bit on both sides.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  15:25-15:27

  So, you know, I have another black brother.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  15:27-15:29

  So I have three brothers.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  15:29-15:30

  One is black, one is white.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  15:30-15:35

  And then I have another one, he passed away from cancer when I was about seven years old, but he was also white.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  15:36-15:45

  So I think for me in the context, I realized that it exists a little bit more than maybe you, just because I am a black person in a white family.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  15:45-15:59

  So for me to, you know, I know that like when I was growing up and even still to this day, like when my mom and I go out places, People will look at us funny and they will automatically assume that we're not related, but it's really funny when I call her mom and people are like, "What?"

  Tiffany Seitz:

  16:00-16:01

  [laughter]

  Tiffany Seitz:

  16:01-16:03

  But I think it's...

  Tiffany Seitz:

  16:04-16:07

  Sometimes racism isn't going to be the most apparent thing that you see.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  16:07-16:15

  And even for me as a black woman living through this whole thing, and even before this, it really wasn't apparent to me. It's just little teeny tiny things.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  16:16-16:26

  Sometimes I will get followed around retail stores, and people look at me pockets and mainly that's just because I'm always cold. I just, you know, I just...

  Tiffany Seitz:

  16:26-16:27

  Do you think maybe they follow

  Pastor Jeff:

  16:27-16:28

  you because they want an autograph?

  Tiffany Seitz:

  16:30-16:49

  I wish that that was the reason. Maybe, maybe, although I did go into a Panera Bread once and somebody knew who I was. It was like a group of teenage boys that were preparing my food and they were like, "Are you Miss Pennsylvania?" and I was like, "Yes, how did you know that?" and they were like, "You were on the 11 o'clock news." I was like, "Well nice of you to tell me because nobody else did."

  Pastor Jeff:

  16:50-16:52

  Now, does being Miss Pennsylvania get you free Panera?

  Pastor Jeff:

  16:54-16:54

  No.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  16:54-16:56

  It's gotten me like a free slushie.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  16:57-17:01

  And I think so far that's it. A free slushie? Yes. That's it.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  17:02-17:06

  Oh man. Yeah, it's not like pass and go, collect $200. I really wish that's what it got me.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  17:06-17:29

  But sadly that's not the case. But you know, even in a position of status, there are still people, like I know several people after I won Miss Pennsylvania had told me like, "Oh, they only picked you because you were black." You know, and it's things like that and things that come up in conversation like that, that, you know, it kind of speaks to the fact that like those mindsets exist in people that might not think that they have them, but it comes out in remarks as

  Pastor Jeff:

  17:29-17:30

  such, you know.

  Pastor Jeff:

  17:30-17:35

  Right, and how do you respond to that? Somebody says, "Hey, they only picked you because you're black." How do you respond to that?

  Tiffany Seitz:

  17:35-17:46

  I mean, that's something that I've gotten like so many times, not even from Miss Pennsylvania, but I did have one person tell me when I was in college that I was the token black person that they put on all the marketing because the school didn't have enough diversity.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  17:46-18:12

  So, you know, I think it's just like I'm a human just as everybody else and at the end of the day color is only Skin-deep and that doesn't define who I am. It's not indicative of my character Right, and so, you know, I'm just like well, you know, you could think that way But like that's that's not the way it is and and you know it's it's kind of a hard thing to respond to because you're not gonna get somebody to understand in that instant like How that felt or like, you know what that meant?

  Tiffany Seitz:

  18:13-18:42

  But you know, it's just letting them know that like at the end of the day regardless of whether I look like you or not I'm still a human and They might have put me on the college marketing because maybe they liked my pink shirt Not because I was like the only black one they could find, you know So I think it's it's important in dressing and addressing things like that because people might not realize how that sounds but you know We're all human and skin color does not dictate our worth and our value So, you know just reminding people of that any chance you get

  Pastor Jeff:

  18:42-18:47

  Jesus Christ determines our worth and our value, right? So Amen

  Mark Ort:

  18:48-19:10

  part of that question Tiffany it talks about white privilege in that and When I got the question, I'm looking at just sent me the email and I'm looking at on my phone And I just I like really had to lean back and take a deep breath Because for the first time I heard the word or the phrase a bunch of times, but I thought to myself What exactly is white privilege?

  Mark Ort:

  19:11-19:18

  So I that's where I started to study a little bit on the internet like what is it? Where did it come from the term?

  Mark Ort:

  19:19-19:22

  Why do we use it things like that when you see that?

  Mark Ort:

  19:23-19:26

  term white privilege What goes through your mind?

  Mark Ort:

  19:28-19:29

  Is it a thing

  19:29-19:30

  I?

  19:30-19:31

  Mean you

  Tiffany Seitz:

  19:31-20:30

  know that terminology to me is is also fairly new I think you know as we've been looking at and watching the things going on in the world It seems at times that it's information overload even for me there's a lot of terminology that I'm seeing that is brand new to me that I've never even heard before and White privilege is one of those and I remember having a discussion in amongst my Miss America class where you know Somebody said to somebody else it was like some sort of an argument that was going on and they said to this this white girl they said your privilege is showing and I'm like What does that even mean? Like, you know, it's nothing that I've ever heard before. So for me, it's it's navigating new water But you know, I think sometimes The playing field hasn't always been even for black people and I think you know One example that I can use is a job resume and some in some of the research that I've done on this It says that you know You're more likely to get an interview from a job resume that has a white sounding name and I can use me for instance So my name hasn't always been Tiffany Sites.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  20:31-20:36

  When I was born, my given name was Davere Lynn Witherspoon, no relation to Reese.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  20:37-20:48

  And so, you look at a resume with Davere Witherspoon on it and you look at a resume with Tiffany Sites on it and one of those is more white sounding than the other.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  20:48-20:55

  And apparently, the more white sounding ones are the ones that get the most, that are more likely to be called back for an interview.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  20:55-21:04

  So I think that even in instances like those many, I think that like that in and of itself might be a form of privilege.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  21:05-21:09

  But again, this is something, the idea of white privilege is something that I'm also educating myself on.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  21:10-21:18

  But I think it bears acknowledgement to the fact that like, we can look around the room, we can look at like the last 400 years, we can look at the history.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  21:18-21:21

  I mean, segregation is not that far away from us.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  21:21-21:24

  And we can see that the playing field hasn't always been even for black people.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  21:24-21:29

  So, I think that in that respect, maybe that is what white privilege means.

  Pastor Jeff:

  21:29-21:37

  Have you had people reel accusations against you, saying the only reason you've gotten your opportunities is because you're basically the beneficiary of white privilege, right?

  Pastor Jeff:

  21:38-21:38

  White parents?

  Pastor Jeff:

  21:38-21:38

  Sure.

  Pastor Jeff:

  21:39-21:42

  I mean, have you had people, you know, sort of bring that accusation to you?

  Tiffany Seitz:

  21:43-22:27

  Yeah, I mean, I've had a lot of people say that, like, you know, my senior year at Grove City College was paid for, and I had one of those scholarships was a minority scholarship, but the scholarship that actually paid for my senior year to do with a minority. It was an entrepreneurship endowment, which was my major. But you know, I had several people say to me when I went told them that, and I didn't tell many people, but they were like, "Well, you know, you get this favor because you're a minority." And I'm like, "Well, no. Maybe it's just because somebody likes me. I don't know. Maybe I happen to rub elbows with the right people." You know? But yeah, you know, those are our things that I've heard. But again, And maybe people do see that as a benefit of white privilege and not something that I'm receiving.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  22:28-22:28

  But you know.

  Pastor Jeff:

  22:29-22:33

  How much of this recent-- we didn't get to this other question yet.

  Pastor Jeff:

  22:33-22:34

  I want to get to that in a second.

  Pastor Jeff:

  22:35-22:38

  I want to make sure to ask you this question, Tiffany.

  Pastor Jeff:

  22:39-23:28

  This recent surge and the result of the George Floyd death and the Brooks man in Atlanta, and the reaction things. How much of this recent surge and some of the destruction and rioting and things like that, how much of that do you think might be politically motivated? Or maybe as a result of, this is just an opinion that I hold, I think a lot of it is people have been locked down with COVID for three months and a lot of people that have no interest in race issues at all are like, "Woohoo, we can I hate to say that, but I don't think everybody out there protesting and rioting gives a rip about race.

  Pastor Jeff:

  23:28-23:30

  I think there's a lot of people that...

  Pastor Jeff:

  23:30-23:31

  How would you respond to that?

  Tiffany Seitz:

  23:32-23:32

  Absolutely.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  23:32-23:38

  I think for me, watching the news and watching the things that are going on in the world, it's so disheartening to me.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  23:39-23:49

  One of the things and one of the thoughts I shared on this issue was the reaction after George Floyd and Breonna Taylor and Ahmaud Arbery, which are three of which we've seen in a very short time.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  23:50-23:56

  I'm not one to think that the destruction of property is going to fix the issue of racism.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  23:56-24:01

  It's only going to confirm stereotypes that people already have about black people.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  24:02-24:09

  And I think that that's perhaps the most disappointing thing to see is that you're not accomplishing things by destruction.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  24:10-24:19

  I think that we need to destroy the idea of racism and that's great, but it's not coming in like tying a rope around a statue and pulling it down on yourself and other people around you.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  24:21-24:41

  So I think for that type of thing, I think we really need to look inside of our hearts and do a heart check within ourselves and say, "How can I combat this in a way that Jesus would? How would Jesus approach this?" I think that's the really important question that we as Christians need to be asking ourselves, and I've been asking myself that as well.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  24:41-25:02

  Because I think, even for me, it's opened my eyes to the injustice, not just with black people, but just injustices in general. How are we going to stand up to those after seeing these things? We're living history right now. It's a chapter out of a history book. It's one that I would love to be done with. But again, if God brings us to it, he will bring us through it.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  25:03-25:23

  There's something to be learned from this season, whether we enjoy going through it or not, but I think it's a big learning lesson for us. And it's been an eye-opener for us as well. How are we going to stand up to injustice, not just racial injustice, but all types of injustice, because there's more than just racial injustice that exists in this country.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  25:23-25:30

  So I think we need to be aware of it all, and we need to combat it all, because that's how we're going to create a better world to live in.

  Mark Ort:

  25:31-25:39

  Tiffany, I had a question on my notes here, and specifically because you're my daughter's dance instructor.

  Pastor Jeff:

  25:40-25:41

  Are you going to ask her to dance?

  Pastor Jeff:

  25:42-25:42

  No, don't do that.

  25:42-25:43

  (laughing)

  Mark Ort:

  25:43-25:44

  One up here.

  Pastor Jeff:

  25:44-25:44

  Not stretched.

  Mark Ort:

  25:46-25:56

  It made me wonder, like when I would take her to dance class and drop her off, some of those times I would sit in those chairs on the side you know, and I would watch.

  Mark Ort:

  25:57-26:09

  And I was very impressed with your dance acumen, or I don't know if that's the right word or whatever, but you're very, you were really, really talented in teaching the kids.

  Mark Ort:

  26:10-26:18

  And you showed this firmness, but yet this love for the kids, which made me really happy, especially for my daughter.

  Mark Ort:

  26:19-26:21

  But that leads me to my question.

  Mark Ort:

  26:22-26:28

  Do you see racism among the younger generation?

  Mark Ort:

  26:29-26:35

  Or do you see it mostly from people that are my age or in the older school of thought?

  Mark Ort:

  26:36-26:42

  Do you see progress being made with the younger generation, I guess is what I'm trying to ask.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  26:42-26:42

  Sure.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  26:42-26:43

  That's actually a really interesting question.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  26:44-26:46

  And I had this discussion with my mom.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  26:46-26:50

  We have quite a few people that we babysit and we've babysat them since they've been born.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  26:51-26:56

  And it's really caused us to feel that racism is definitely something that is taught.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  26:57-27:00

  And for older people, that goes back generations and generations.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  27:01-27:05

  I know that my mom has shared stories with me about the reaction of her family adopting me.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  27:06-27:14

  And it was like, "Oh, she's so dark." Or, "Take her back where she came from." Those are things that we had heard.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  27:16-27:22

  But again, we're not looking at this baby seeing, "Oh, she's black." We're looking at a baby seeing a baby.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  27:22-27:23

  You know what I mean?

  Tiffany Seitz:

  27:23-27:24

  So I think that that's like...

  Tiffany Seitz:

  27:24-27:29

  But again, that's generations of what was taught to you to think about black people over history.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  27:29-27:34

  But what I've noticed, and even my dance teaching, I teach little kids on Tuesdays.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  27:34-27:36

  They're so cute, but Libby's age is cute too.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  27:38-27:39

  For different reasons.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  27:40-27:48

  But, you know, I realize that people, like kids don't notice a color difference until like around the, between the ages of seven and nine.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  27:48-27:53

  So when kids run into dance class, they're not looking like, "Oh, my dance teacher's black." They're not looking at that.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  27:54-28:01

  You know, they're looking at like, "Oh, she's my dance teacher." You know, and I think that like the older they get, the more that they realize like we look different.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  28:01-28:04

  And that's totally fine to acknowledge the fact that we look different.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  28:04-28:08

  I mean, I remember having a little kid that we babysit.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  28:08-28:10

  His name is Lucas, sweetest person ever.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  28:10-28:11

  And he's like 11 now.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  28:11-28:14

  But I remember a few years back, we were in the kitchen, and he asked my mom.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  28:14-28:16

  He's like, mom-- or he said, Nana.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  28:16-28:16

  He calls her Nana.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  28:16-28:18

  He's like, Nana, why is Tiffany a different color?

  Tiffany Seitz:

  28:19-28:22

  And then my mom was like, well, that's the way that God made her.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  28:22-28:27

  And of course, I'm like, well, I was the piece of toast that stayed in the toaster too long.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  28:28-28:29

  That was my answer.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  28:29-28:33

  But my mom always comes in clutch with the loving educational answers.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  28:33-28:35

  And there's me and my snark.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  28:36-28:42

  But again, kids don't realize it until a certain age.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  28:42-28:44

  And they don't care regardless.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  28:45-28:52

  And I think that that's almost the attitude that we need to adopt, that we shouldn't look at somebody's race and automatically assume that they're lesser than.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  28:52-28:56

  We can acknowledge the fact that they're different, and we can celebrate the fact that they're different.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  28:57-29:11

  Because I think that that, in and of itself, Demonstrates God's handiwork that we don't all look the same. He does have some air of originality He might have spent more time working on you than he did on me, but you know regardless We're still he'll work.

  Pastor Jeff:

  29:11-29:17

  He's still working on me. Trust me. He's got a lot of work to do with me He's gracious to do

  Tiffany Seitz:

  29:17-29:48

  absolutely and I think that just like it shows his craftsmanship and the fact that he has made everybody so different And so unique and I think that that's something that we can celebrate But when we look at it, it's not that we're gonna like assume stereotypes And we're gonna assume that this person is lesser than because of the color of their skin And I think that history has kind of taught us to do that in some respect and mindset has taught us to do that but I really think that that's a mindset that we need to work on moving away from and Celebrating our differences in a way that glorifies God,

  Pastor Jeff:

  29:48-29:59

  right? You know I had a Quote on here. I was gonna ask you to respond to you that you sort of kind of just did, but you know, you hear people say, "I don't see color." How do you respond to that?

  Tiffany Seitz:

  30:01-30:05

  I mean, almost for me, that's like, that is usually the way I respond.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  30:05-30:09

  I mean, I've grown up in like predominantly white areas and I work in a predominantly white area.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  30:10-30:20

  So for me, I look at people and I'm like, "Eh, you look different, it's no big deal." You know, and for people that like don't see color, like that's fine.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  30:21-30:23

  But if you do, that's great too.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  30:24-30:24

  You know what I mean?

  Tiffany Seitz:

  30:24-30:30

  I think it's just, like I said, we can acknowledge the fact that we indeed look different, and I think that that's good.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  30:30-30:38

  I think it celebrates the fact that God is good and that he's an amazing creator and it shows his handiwork and his hard work on us.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  30:38-30:41

  So I think that we can see color.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  30:41-30:42

  It's not a bad thing.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  30:42-30:56

  And what I would hate to happen is after this ongoing discussion kind of comes to a lull is the fact that we're taboo about saying, oh, often people tell me, you have such beautiful skin, or your skin is so radiant, or this and that.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  30:56-30:58

  And I'm like, well, you have beautiful skin, too.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  30:58-31:00

  Do you not see this zit right here?

  Tiffany Seitz:

  31:00-31:01

  You know what I mean?

  Tiffany Seitz:

  31:01-31:02

  It's things like that.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  31:02-31:04

  But it's OK to celebrate the differences.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  31:04-31:06

  And it's a good thing to celebrate those.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  31:06-31:11

  And I don't want people to feel like it's offensive to say, wow, you're so beautiful.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  31:11-31:12

  Your skin is so beautiful.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  31:12-31:13

  Like, it's not.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  31:13-31:14

  Like, it's a celebration of God's creation.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  31:14-31:18

  And I think that that's a really, really good thing to do.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  31:18-31:24

  And it's a good thing to make a habit of, but where it becomes a problem is when we look at somebody and we just assume that they're a certain stereotype.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  31:24-31:25

  You know what I mean?

  Tiffany Seitz:

  31:25-31:37

  I'm sure there have been in the research that I've done and even in people's reactions, like I've had kids, like little teeny tiny, like under 10 year olds that are blaming China for the coronavirus, you know?

  Tiffany Seitz:

  31:37-31:41

  And they look at Chinese Americans and they're like, you're responsible for COVID-19.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  31:41-31:50

  And you know, like that's not something that we wanna do, like regardless of color or nationality, like we can celebrate those differences at the end of the day we're all children of God and that's what we need to focus on.

  Pastor Jeff:

  31:52-32:15

  Let's look at the second part of that question. How are we at Harvest able to make a difference despite the lack of diversity in our church and immediate community? And I gotta say, before you answer this, this question kind of stung me because I had another Harvest pastor years ago sharply rebuke me because we didn't have more black people in our church.

  Pastor Jeff:

  32:15-32:21

  And my response was like, "We don't exclude anybody, right?

  Pastor Jeff:

  32:21-32:57

  We don't intentionally try to keep people away." But I've got to tell you, Tiffany, when I look at this question, and as pastor of this church, and I think about our demographic, and the makeup of our church, and I think about what the Scripture says about every tribe and nation and skin color and everything else around the throne of Christ, I have to ask myself, is there something that we're doing as a church culture that would make a black person, or an Asian person, or a Latino person, or any person, is there something that we're doing as a church culture that would make people feel uncomfortable?

  Pastor Jeff:

  32:58-33:18

  And that's why this question, like I said, it kind of hit me in a place where I was like, "Yeah, you know, where is the diversity, and are we doing something to prevent it?" And this question is proactively asking how are we able to actually make a difference despite where we are diversity-wise.

  Pastor Jeff:

  33:18-33:19

  Would you please speak to that?

  Tiffany Seitz:

  33:20-33:20

  Yeah.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  33:20-33:25

  You know, I think, like you said, it largely has to do with the demographic of this area.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  33:26-33:30

  There might not be a whole lot of black people around the Wexford area, and that is okay.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  33:30-33:35

  And I don't think that it's anything in particular that you're doing as a church that would make them feel unwelcome.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  33:36-33:45

  But I think maybe sometimes black people might feel a little bit of comfort in gravitating towards where there would be more diversity.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  33:46-33:49

  And so if there isn't more diversity here, they might not come.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  33:49-33:52

  But I don't think it's anything that you're doing.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  33:52-33:57

  I just think that it's a comfort zone for some people to be around people who look like them.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  33:58-34:00

  And I think that we can all speak to that to some extent.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  34:00-34:05

  But I don't think it's anything that your church is doing wrong or exclusionary to them.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  34:05-34:05

  Can you

  Pastor Jeff:

  34:05-34:07

  call this pastor that rebuked me and tell him that?

  Tiffany Seitz:

  34:08-34:09

  Yes,

  Pastor Jeff:

  34:09-34:09

  I would love

  Tiffany Seitz:

  34:09-34:10

  to have a conversation.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  34:11-34:11

  No, I'd

  Pastor Jeff:

  34:11-34:12

  appreciate it.

  Pastor Jeff:

  34:12-34:13

  I'll give you his number after service.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  34:13-34:13

  Hey, sounds good.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  34:14-34:14

  Yes.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  34:15-34:17

  We'll do a Zoom call because apparently those are popular these days.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  34:19-34:23

  Yes, all of my masters and doctorate and like Zoom by the end of this pandemic season.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  34:23-34:32

  But I think it's just, it really largely has to do with the fact that the demographic might not call for it and that's totally fine.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  34:32-34:36

  and people might gravitate towards this church because they really like it.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  34:36-34:41

  Or they might want more diversity in a church, but you can't control that because of the area that you live in.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  34:41-34:44

  You know what I mean? So there's nothing that you should be at fault for.

  Pastor Jeff:

  34:44-34:51

  And I feel like it can sort of make evangelism disingenuous.

  Pastor Jeff:

  34:51-34:55

  If I'm like, "Hey, you're black. I want you to come to my church." You know what I mean? Is that my motivation?

  Pastor Jeff:

  34:56-34:59

  To share the love of Christ with you because of your ethnic background?

  Pastor Jeff:

  34:59-35:05

  My motivation should be, you know, God commanded us to preach the gospel to all creatures, right?

  Pastor Jeff:

  35:05-35:07

  So that should motivate me.

  Pastor Jeff:

  35:07-35:16

  And I feel like if we're just trying to target people for certain reasons, I think maybe our motivation is in question.

  Pastor Jeff:

  35:17-35:21

  You know, what I share with this person, regardless of their skin color, right?

  Pastor Jeff:

  35:21-35:36

  So what can we as a church do, because we're seeing what's going on, We're watching the news, we're seeing the rioting, we're hearing of the protesting just down the road.

  Pastor Jeff:

  35:38-35:39

  What can we as a church do about it?

  Tiffany Seitz:

  35:41-35:46

  Yeah, you know, I had a conversation about this either last week or a couple weeks ago.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  35:46-36:07

  I think that when we look at the news and we see what's going on and we're looking at social media especially, I know that that's what I'm looking at a whole lot of the time, and I'm just seeing these exhaustive checklists for how we can be better people and better allies and all this stuff that's, again, terminology that is really relatively new to me as well.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  36:08-36:15

  And I don't think that there's like, there's not really like a right blanket answer that I can give to this question.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  36:15-36:19

  I really think that the issue of racism, and you know, there are people that disagree.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  36:19-36:25

  I know that this has been a discussion amongst my Miss America class because we only have eight black women in it.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  36:25-36:33

  So it's been a discussion amongst our class and there are several of the girls that believe that racism is not a hard issue.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  36:34-36:35

  And I think it is a hard issue.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  36:35-36:36

  It absolutely is a hard issue.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  36:36-36:37

  Very much is a hard issue.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  36:38-36:45

  So when we're addressing the topic of what can we as individuals do to fix this, be introspective.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  36:46-36:52

  I watched a really impactful video on Facebook one day and it was a white professor addressing white college students.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  36:53-37:12

  And she simply said, "Stand up if you would like "to be treated as a black person in the United States." And there was silence and nobody stood up because nobody wants to be treated differently because at the end of the day, I think it forced them to realize, and even me as well, that we're all human beings.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  37:13-37:19

  And that the color of our skin is not indicative of the quality of our character or the kind of individual that we are.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  37:20-37:25

  So when posed the question, and this is a question that I've gotten from so many people, is like, what can we do?

  Tiffany Seitz:

  37:25-37:26

  What can we do?

  Tiffany Seitz:

  37:26-37:27

  What can we do?

  Tiffany Seitz:

  37:27-37:28

  Be introspective.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  37:29-37:40

  Check your own heart and get rid of those things that might cause you to see somebody as less than a creation that God has made and that God glorifies in and revels in every single day.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  37:41-37:44

  Because those are things that nobody else can fix for you.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  37:44-37:52

  So if you wanna look at an Instagram checklist and say, these are the things that I need to do in order to not be racist, To me, that's grossly ineffective.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  37:56-37:58

  It's gonna look different for everybody.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  37:58-38:01

  So following a checklist, I don't think it's gonna work.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  38:01-38:03

  You've gotta look inside your own heart.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  38:03-38:09

  You've gotta do the work to remove those things that might be hateful and that might make somebody look different because of their color.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  38:09-38:11

  You've gotta put the legwork in to remove those things.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  38:11-38:15

  It's not gonna be a checklist on how to do this that's gonna do it for you.

  Mark Ort:

  38:15-38:16

  Right, right.

  Mark Ort:

  38:16-38:25

  So the introspection is really good But it's something that, you know, we've had conversations with our family about this very thing.

  Mark Ort:

  38:26-38:29

  And the ability to listen to the other side.

  Mark Ort:

  38:30-38:40

  And that, you know, you mentioned social media and one of the hashtags that goes around is I saw the silence is violence.

  Mark Ort:

  38:41-38:42

  What do you say to that?

  Mark Ort:

  38:42-38:47

  Like, you know, you know, silence can be good.

  Mark Ort:

  38:47-38:53

  Do we want to be entirely quiet or do we need to speak up as a church on these matters?

  Tiffany Seitz:

  38:54-39:02

  Yeah, I mean that's a really good point and I know that I've seen the quote quite a bit on social media that like silence is the language of the oppressor, right?

  Tiffany Seitz:

  39:02-39:11

  I've seen it everywhere and I think it's a quote that does not really sit well with me and has not sat well with me watching this go on.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  39:12-39:22

  Because I think largely what's being interpreted as silence is a lack of addressing it on social media. And I had, which is like, again, a social media has become the age of like doing.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  39:23-39:53

  And I think people are equating posting on social media about these things to actual action. So if you're not posting about it, then you don't care. And I've had quite a few people tell me that. And I'm like, no, it's not that I don't care. It's that I'm taking the time to educate myself. I'm taking the time to learn. And then I'm going to share with you what my heart feels to be true. And obviously I'm going to look to scripture for answers because scripture is the only book that has the answers on how to fix these issues.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  39:54-39:59

  So if we're looking elsewhere, we're wrong. I think we need to spend less time on social media.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  39:59-40:06

  We need to spend more time in prayer. We need to spend more time in the word. And that is the only way that you are going to see a difference made in this world.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  40:08-40:23

  I think that's it. Point blank, period. If we're looking to social media for the answers that only God has, and it's really in a book that is sold in like Ollie's and like Barnes and Noble, like you can get a Bible anywhere.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  40:23-40:23

  Right.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  40:23-40:27

  Like, go get one and the answers are right in front of you.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  40:27-40:27

  Right.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  40:27-40:37

  Because it's not going to be a social media checklist, it's not going to be a nice graphic that somebody made on Canva saying this is how to not be racist, follow these instructions and you're good.

  Pastor Jeff:

  40:37-40:37

  Right.

  Pastor Jeff:

  40:37-40:42

  It's going to be being conformed to the image of Jesus Christ.

  Pastor Jeff:

  40:42-41:39

  what God wants for you, Romans 8.29. And it's only through that that, you know, we walk by the power of the Holy Spirit. It's funny you say that, you know, not going by the checklist, that's like kind of Old Testament thinking, right? Don't do this on the Sabbath, don't do this on the Sabbath. And the Bible says we don't live like that anymore. We live under the power of the Holy Spirit, right? We have God's presence indwelling us, so it is, you the way Christ did, and he did. You know, you see, you know, even we studied in John him sitting down at the well with the Samaritan woman. I mean, that was a huge thing. But we see, you know, his grace, and we see just him very naturally reaching out to somebody very different than him, but he had something for her, as we do as a church. Do we have any questions? We are like a little OT here, and that's okay, I don't hear anybody complaining.

  Pastor Jeff:

  41:40-41:42

  Do we have any questions that were texted in?

  Pastor Jeff:

  41:43-41:43

  Oh, they're up there?

  Pastor Jeff:

  41:44-41:45

  Okay, I'm sorry, I'm looking at...

  Pastor Jeff:

  41:46-41:47

  Okay, Tiffany, you ready?

  Pastor Jeff:

  41:48-41:48

  Ready.

  Pastor Jeff:

  41:48-41:57

  One of my new co-workers, in a nutshell, is less than professional in her behavior, attendance, attire, work ethic, etc.

  Pastor Jeff:

  41:57-42:04

  I realize she isn't doing these things due to her race, but the struggle is that she bluntly said, "If they fire me, I will just play the race card.

  Pastor Jeff:

  42:05-42:07

  This is such a struggle for me." Wow.

  Pastor Jeff:

  42:07-42:08

  How do you respond to that?

  42:09-42:10

  I

  Tiffany Seitz:

  42:10-42:13

  personally am not a fan of pulling the race card.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  42:14-42:23

  Because if you're going to be fired from this job because of your behavior, attendance, attire, work ethic, et cetera, it's not because you're black.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  42:23-42:26

  It's because you're clearly bad at work.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  42:28-42:30

  I think that that really speaks for itself.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  42:30-42:35

  And I just don't love using the color of your skin as a crutch, right?

  Tiffany Seitz:

  42:35-42:46

  to come back and say like, "Oh, they fired me because I'm black." No, and I think that that's, again, a negative that might possibly come out of this season is more people doing that.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  42:47-42:55

  And I personally am not a fan of that, but again, you're not gonna prevent that from happening, sadly.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  42:55-43:05

  But again, I think it's pretty clear there are a lot of reasons why she's gonna be fired, and none of them have to do with the fact that she's black.

  43:06-43:06

  The

  Pastor Jeff:

  43:06-43:08

  person that submitted this question, should they address this person?

  Pastor Jeff:

  43:09-43:10

  Or can they?

  Tiffany Seitz:

  43:11-43:18

  I mean, in the event that she came and told you, I'm gonna pull the race card if they fire me, then by all means, yeah, address it with her.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  43:18-43:24

  I think that that's perfectly appropriate if she's come to you and said, if they fire me, I'm gonna do this.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  43:24-43:26

  I think it's appropriate to address that.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  43:26-43:36

  But if it's a generalized statement and she said it to multiple people, And I think that it would be a touchy subject if it were addressed to her personally after just generalizing the statement.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  43:36-43:42

  It might be a little bit touchy, but if it was something that was personally addressed to you, then yes, by all means, I would definitely address that.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  43:42-43:54

  Because I just, again, if we don't wanna be looked at for the color of our skin being different, then I don't think that we should pull the race card if we're gonna be fired for things that are bad.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  43:54-43:55

  Right,

  Pastor Jeff:

  43:55-43:55

  right.

  Pastor Jeff:

  43:57-43:58

  Yeah, that's a really good question.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  43:59-43:59

  Great

  Pastor Jeff:

  43:59-43:59

  answer.

  Pastor Jeff:

  43:59-44:00

  Any more that came in?

  Pastor Jeff:

  44:02-44:08

  Okay, Tiffany, how has your life been impacted by racism and how are you overcoming or dealing with this?

  Pastor Jeff:

  44:08-44:09

  That's a really good question.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  44:09-44:11

  Yeah, that's an excellent question.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  44:11-44:17

  You know, I have not, thankfully, experienced racism on a great deal.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  44:17-44:19

  I've never experienced overt racism.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  44:20-44:26

  It's only been like little things like being followed around in retail stores because they think I'm going to steal something.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  44:28-44:37

  The new one is asking me every three minutes if I want help while I'm browsing the clearance rack because they think I'm just gonna walk out of here with the security tags on.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  44:39-44:40

  From the clearance rack.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  44:40-44:41

  Exactly, from the clearance rack.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  44:42-44:43

  I mean, I'm a thrift shopper.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  44:45-44:50

  Not rich, but I do have the money to buy what you think I'm going to steal or something.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  44:50-44:50

  I don't know.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  44:52-44:54

  But it's just little teeny tiny things.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  44:57-45:01

  How I've handled those over the years is you kind of have to let it roll off your back like water.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  45:01-45:06

  I think we live in the age of offense where people are offended by everything.

  Pastor Jeff:

  45:07-45:07

  And

  Tiffany Seitz:

  45:07-45:14

  if you're going to be offended by everything, then I would almost say that you're part of the problem.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  45:14-45:22

  I think that there are things that will be out of our control that we aren't going to be able to do what we want with those.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  45:22-45:26

  And at the end of the day, I just really think that we've got to let God handle the things that aren't ours.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  45:27-45:28

  You know, vengeance is not ours.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  45:28-45:31

  He'll take care of those people that are wronging us and that are hurting us.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  45:31-45:33

  It's not our job to do that.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  45:34-45:53

  But you know, again, I have the choice to either live in the era of being offended all the time by what I'm seeing, or I can just go about my life being a normal human being and recognizing that everybody around me is beautiful, everybody around me is created differently, and that's something that I'm going to continue to celebrate regardless.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  45:54-45:57

  And if people don't want to celebrate that with me, then that's okay.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  45:57-45:58

  God will deal with them on that.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  45:59-46:00

  It's not my job to change their mind.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  46:00-46:04

  And certainly I, as one person, am not going to cure the ignorance of a thousand people.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  46:05-46:13

  So again, it's my choice to be offended, but I'm going to continue to walk in what I know to be the truth, and that truth is God's Word.

  Mark Ort:

  46:14-46:22

  To that point, Tiffany, one of the questions that I really have had during this whole thing that's going on in the news lately.

  Mark Ort:

  46:23-46:26

  And you mentioned the word offense this morning.

  Mark Ort:

  46:26-46:34

  And so the burning question for me is what sorts of things would offend you if there are anything?

  Mark Ort:

  46:35-46:41

  Just so that I know, maybe I don't know I'm offending somebody of another race.

  Mark Ort:

  46:41-46:43

  What sort of things offend you?

  Tiffany Seitz:

  46:45-46:45

  Sure.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  46:45-46:57

  I mean, like I said, it's very little I get offended by simply because I've been just asked a myriad of questions and I know that they're obviously asked with good intent and people know my background prior to asking questions.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  46:58-47:04

  They know that I have white parents, they know that I have one black sibling and I am a black woman in a mixed family.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  47:04-47:08

  So I mean for me it's just like, it doesn't really bother me.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  47:08-47:21

  But I think if there were like any things that bother me, it's just like, to look at somebody and you can see it sometimes as well, to look at somebody and just automatically assume that they're less than, I think is like the biggest offense to me.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  47:22-47:25

  And that won't come out in like very specific things.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  47:26-47:29

  It's kind of just like the way that we do life sometimes.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  47:29-47:36

  It's just kind of, you know, it's something that's ingrained in us that we might not even realize that it's happening.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  47:36-47:43

  But I think just, you know, kind of killing the mindset that there are people in this world that are less than when God created us all equal.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  47:44-47:49

  And I don't think that it should have taken until like 2020 to realize that's the case, you know.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  47:49-47:59

  So, you know, I can't really think of anything immediately that like would offend me, but I'm also one that's just like, you know, ask me anything because I'm not offended.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  47:59-47:59

  You know

  Mark Ort:

  47:59-48:00

  what I mean?

  Mark Ort:

  48:00-48:11

  What about like television shows like Dukes of Hazzard or, you know, the cancel culture or products that have black people on them that, you know, they're removing certain products off the shelves.

  Mark Ort:

  48:11-48:15

  Do those sorts of things bother you, offend you?

  Mark Ort:

  48:15-48:21

  I mean, are they doing a good thing by, you know, like taking Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben off of products?

  Mark Ort:

  48:22-48:24

  Like, is that okay with you?

  Mark Ort:

  48:24-48:25

  Or is that something we should be doing?

  Mark Ort:

  48:26-48:34

  I never, like, you know, I've had those products and I never once looked at them and thought, oh, that's racist, but maybe that's, maybe I have something to work on.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  48:35-48:45

  Sure, you know, I was thinking to myself the other day, I was reading about the whole Aunt Jemima situation and I was thinking, I was like, the first thought that came to my mind was like, are we really now offended by maple syrup?

  Tiffany Seitz:

  48:45-48:47

  Like that's literally the first thing that crossed my mind.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  48:47-48:47

  We are.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  48:47-48:50

  I was like, people, come on.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  48:50-48:57

  Like, you know, if you actually read the history behind Aunt Jemima, it's really fascinating history.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  48:57-49:00

  And it's actually like, she did a lot of amazing things.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  49:01-49:04

  And having her on maple syrup is not racist.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  49:04-49:16

  But again, these are people that are looking at things and they're taking them at face value and they're saying, oh, she's an example of modern day slavery in 1860, so we need to rip her off the maple syrup bottle.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  49:16-49:29

  But I'm like, if you actually took the time to read about the fact that Aunt Jemima did really amazing things-- and I could be historically inaccurate here, but I believe that she helped with the Underground Railroad, you know, something like that.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  49:29-49:30

  She did

  Pastor Jeff:

  49:30-49:33

  really-- She became one of the first black millionaires.

  Pastor Jeff:

  49:33-49:33

  Yes.

  Pastor Jeff:

  49:33-49:36

  She went from slave to millionaire.

  Pastor Jeff:

  49:36-49:37

  Yeah, that's amazing.

  Pastor Jeff:

  49:37-49:38

  She should be celebrated for that.

  Pastor Jeff:

  49:38-49:39

  We should

  Tiffany Seitz:

  49:39-49:40

  be applauding that.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  49:40-49:41

  Absolutely, that's amazing.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  49:41-49:45

  And again, it's just, you know, we have a choice to be offended by certain things.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  49:45-49:52

  And I don't think that we should be taking like prominent black people off of bottles, especially if their contributions were really, really amazing.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  49:53-49:56

  And you know, the way in which they look might need to be updated, sure.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  49:57-50:00

  But how far are we going to get?

  Tiffany Seitz:

  50:00-50:07

  And how are we going to, you know, continue to address ignorance if we're busy being offended by maple syrup?

  Tiffany Seitz:

  50:08-50:09

  know what I mean? I think that like... And it's not even

  Pastor Jeff:

  50:09-50:21

  a race thing because in the past couple weeks I found out Spongebob Squarepants is gay. Did you know that? No, I did not know that. Yeah, they came out Spongebob is gay and... Interesting. Sponge?

  50:22-50:22

  What's that?

  Mark Ort:

  50:22-50:23

  A sponge?

  Pastor Jeff:

  50:24-50:37

  Yes. Okay. Spongebob Squarepants is gay and Elmer Fudd and Yosemite Sam aren't allowed to have guns in the Looney Tunes remake. Interesting. And I'm like Why are we so focused on cartoons?

  Pastor Jeff:

  50:38-50:40

  There are real people with real problems out there.

  Pastor Jeff:

  50:40-50:40

  >> Oh, sure.

  Pastor Jeff:

  50:41-50:41

  I know.

  Pastor Jeff:

  50:41-50:43

  >> And we're attacking cartoons.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  50:43-50:57

  >> I know that there was -- I was reading Disney is thinking of -- I think it's one of their roller coasters in Walt Disney World that they're considering rebranding because it has -- the movie that's based off of is Song of the South, which is a vaulted Disney movie.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  50:58-51:04

  And in that movie it talks -- you know, it's the mistreatment of black people and it very much addresses the age of slavery and kind of makes a joke about it.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  51:04-51:14

  So people have been offended by that movie, so now they think that we should make it a Princess Tiana ride, which I wouldn't be offended by because people told me I look like that.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  51:14-51:14

  So that's awesome.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  51:17-51:24

  But just again, just taking-- again, I would never have known that that ride was based off of that movie had I never read about it.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  51:25-51:28

  But is it one step too far?

  Tiffany Seitz:

  51:28-51:36

  I mean, I think that addressing active racism between us, But I mean, a Disney ride is, you know, that people have never even looked at until now.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  51:38-51:40

  I think our energies would be a lot more useful elsewhere.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  51:41-51:41

  Yeah,

  Pastor Jeff:

  51:41-51:43

  yeah, I think so.

  Pastor Jeff:

  51:44-51:44

  I think so.

  Pastor Jeff:

  51:45-51:46

  Let's take one or two more questions.

  Pastor Jeff:

  51:46-51:48

  We have... No, that was it.

  Pastor Jeff:

  51:48-51:49

  Do you want to do the mic?

  Pastor Jeff:

  51:50-51:51

  You know what?

  Pastor Jeff:

  51:51-51:52

  I think we're about done.

  Pastor Jeff:

  51:53-51:56

  Do we have any, like, one really, really urgent pressing question?

  Pastor Jeff:

  51:57-51:59

  Absolutely, we cannot leave until it's asked.

  Pastor Jeff:

  52:01-52:03

  If you have a question like that, we'll answer that one.

  Pastor Jeff:

  52:03-52:06

  Darla does. Go ahead, say it from your seat.

  Pastor Jeff:

  52:07-52:10

  Mark, she'll say it from her seat and you're going to repeat it into the mic so we have it on the recording.

  Pastor Jeff:

  52:12-52:22

  So the question is, how do we as white people sort of respond to "Black Lives Matter", "All Lives Matter" and...

  Pastor Jeff:

  52:22-52:27

  Black Lives Matter is a hard thing because it's a statement but it's also an organization.

  Pastor Jeff:

  52:27-52:30

  And I would agree with one but not necessarily the other.

  Pastor Jeff:

  52:30-52:31

  Tiffany, would you speak to that, please?

  Tiffany Seitz:

  52:32-52:46

  Sure, I know that I've had it come up in conversation that people are really leery of saying the phrase Black Lives Matter because they fear that it might be associated with the movement that largely wants to defund the police, which is a whole other issue.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  52:47-52:52

  So I know that there is a lot of taboo around saying Black Lives Matter.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  52:52-52:57

  And I think that all of us agree in this room that all lives do matter.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  52:58-53:02

  And right now, and for the past 400 years, I think it's been the black lives that have been hurting.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  53:03-53:05

  And I don't think that it's bad to acknowledge that.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  53:06-53:06

  You know what I mean?

  Tiffany Seitz:

  53:06-53:14

  So I think taking the time to make sure that everybody's treated equally, I think that's really the most important thing.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  53:14-53:21

  And you don't necessarily have to be associated with the movement in order to assure that people are treated equally around you.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  53:21-53:27

  And I think that that perhaps is the most important thing that we can do is stand up to injustice when you see it.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  53:27-53:36

  Because I think largely what this season has done for us is it has made us aware of the fact that there is indeed injustice that goes unrecognized every day.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  53:36-53:43

  I know that these three murders that have happened and in counting that are still happening to this day have made us aware.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  53:43-53:46

  And there are so many others like that that don't get media attention.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  53:47-54:01

  So I think that us in our personal lives going about that and making sure that we as Christians can speak to the fact that we are all created equal.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  54:01-54:03

  And I know that that's not what people wanna hear right now.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  54:03-54:18

  I know that they wanna hear Black Lives Matter, and I know that that's something, a hashtag that really I've refrained from using because I do believe that all lives matter, but I do have the understanding as a black woman living through this season that black voices have been hurting for such a long time.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  54:19-54:45

  to think that segregation, we think it's hundreds of years ago, when it's not hundreds of years ago. It's still within the last 50, 60 years that that was a reality. And to think that had I been alive during that season, I would not be able to be in this room with you right now. So to think those things are really, really jarring. But I understand that not everybody wants to hear all lives matter right now as much as we all believe that to be true.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  54:46-54:55

  I think that going above and beyond to assure that we at the end of the day know that we're human and we all deserve that equality.

  54:56-54:56

  Well,

  Pastor Jeff:

  54:56-54:58

  Tiffany, thank you so much for being our guest today.

  Pastor Jeff:

  54:59-54:59

  It's my pleasure.

  Tiffany Seitz:

  55:00-55:01

  Thank you for having me.

  Pastor Jeff:

  55:09-55:43

  And I'm sure, as Dr. Andrews said, I'm sure this is only the beginning of conversations for a lot of people, but I think your insight really pointed us in the right direction in a lot of ways. So I appreciate you taking the time and joining us. If our worship team would come back up to the platform, I'm going to pray and we're going to close our time by worshipping the Lord together. Let's pray. Father in heaven, we thank you that you've made it so clear in your word that you take horrible things and you use them for glorious things.

  Pastor Jeff:

  55:45-55:46

  We see it with your son.

  Pastor Jeff:

  55:47-55:51

  His brutal execution was the way that you purchased our salvation.

  Pastor Jeff:

  55:52-56:00

  And somehow, Father, we believe that You're going to use this day of racism and reaction to and violence.

  Pastor Jeff:

  56:00-56:03

  We believe, Father, that You are going to use this.

  Pastor Jeff:

  56:04-56:08

  And it might be hard for us to see now how You're going to use this, but we believe that You are.

  Pastor Jeff:

  56:09-56:24

  Father, I pray for this church, that we would stand ready to represent Christ as we leave from here and go back to our homes, go back to our neighborhoods, go back to our workplaces, go back to wherever You have us.

  Pastor Jeff:

  56:25-56:30

  Father, let us represent the love of Jesus Christ that is for all people.

  Pastor Jeff:

  56:31-56:36

  Father, thank You for the work that I'm sure You started today, that You're going to carry through.

  Pastor Jeff:

  56:37-56:39

  I pray in Jesus' name, Amen.

Small Group Questions (Whole Group):

Discuss any of the topics covered on Sunday! Consult the thorough notes I’m certain you took.

Breakout Questions:
Pray for our nation - and pray for our church to have opportunity to love people with the Gospel in the face of racial tension.

Questions from the Congregation - Part 12

Note: The time signatures [00:00] below indicate the start of a question if you'd like to skip to a particular one of interest in the audio file.

1. [02:42] - Q: God said it was not good for man to be alone and created women. Why wouldn't God have the same for Himself?
   A: See John 17:5, 24 | Ephesians 5:25-32 | Revelation 19:9
   
   

2. [05:54] - Q: What is a Christ-like response to people you don't know stopping you on the street and asking for money? What's the best way to show the love of Christ without enabling/hurting more than helping the situation?

   A: The safest bet is to offer them food. But always make it an opportunity to share the gospel with them.

3. [12:20] - Q: The Bible states "absent from the body present with the Lord" but also talks about the dead in Christ will rise at Christ's return and forever be with the Lord. Explain please.
   A: See 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 | 1 Corinthians 15:35-55
   
   

4. [14:26] - LIVE TXT Q: We are to believe that the Bible is the truth because it is Gods word, and I want to believe this, but the Bible has been translated and copied so many times by so many people. What if the truth has been lost in the process?
   A: The test to verify an ancient document, the Biblographical Test. 2nd ancient document, the Homer’s Ilead 600ish copies…the New Testament has 24,000+ ancient copies.
   
   

5. [23:29] - Q: Christ tells us to do communion but He also washed feet and told us to do that too. Why do some churches wash feet and not others. (BTW the fact that we don't is not a problem with me.)
   A: See John 13:15 - For I have given you an example, that you also should do just as I have done to you.
   
   

6. [27:47] - LIVE AUDIENCE Q: Could you talk about eschatology? What the church’s position is on end times. His scripture descriptive of what’s going to happen, what’s already been fulfilled, just generally like that.
   A: See Revelation, Matthew 24, Mark 13, Daniel 9 | Last year we covered the entire book of Revelation.

7. [30:50] - Q: Can you please explain to me the meaning of Psalm 108:7-9? thank you.
   A: See Psalm 57:7-11 | Psalm 60:5-12
   
   

8. [33:39] - Q: To my understanding, the devil was cast from Heaven due to the sin of Pride, is that correct? And if so, I don't understand that as I didn't think sin was possible in Heaven? Thanks.
   A: See Revelation 12:4 | Matthew 25:41
   
   

9. [35:00] - LIVE TXT Q: How does Harvest reconcile the thought that some parts of scripture are cultural (like head coverings) but others like the role of women in the church are not?
   A: See Timothy 2:11-15 | It’s the context of and surrounding the passage as to whether it’s cultural or theological, take out your biases and read the text straightforwardly.
   
   

10. [39:21] - Q: Melchizedek. Please Explain.
    A: See Hebrews 7 | Psalm 110:4 | Genesis 14
    Melchizedek was a “type”, a picture of the Messiah, in at least 5 ways:
    1 – His name: my king is Righteousness
    2 – His title: King of Salem (Peace)
    3 – He was BOTH king AND priest
    4 – He was not a Levitical priest (Jesus was from Judah)
    5 – No beginning or end. Mel shows up suddenly and vanishes suddenly from the Scriptures, no genealogy or parents mentioned, “resembling Jesus” as a “priest forever”. (Heb7:3)
    
    

11. [42:58] - Q: What about white privilege and racism? And what about diversity in our church? How are we supposed to respond as a body and as individuals?
    A: Join us next week for a Bonus QnA day! Bring your friends and family as we have a special guest joining the QnA, submit your questions now!

    
    Any question that was missed due to time constraints during the service Pastor Jeff will address the answer on the blog.

Sermon Notes (PDF): BLANK
Hint: Highlight blanks above for answers!

• Audio Transcript

  Pastor Jeff:

  00:00-00:18

  Good morning again, please welcome up to the platform mr.. Mark Ort

  Mark Ort:

  00:00-00:18

  Good morning

  Pastor Jeff:

  00:00-00:18

  How long do we want to go?

  Mark Ort:

  00:00-00:18

  40 minutes? We normally do 40 minutes?

  Pastor Jeff:

  00:00-00:18

  You want to do for you want to 40 minutes?

  Pastor Jeff:

  00:19-00:21

  Gosh, don't you people have anything else to do today?

  Pastor Jeff:

  00:23-00:29

  Nope? Alright 40 minutes I'm just kidding. I love Q&A day!

  Mark Ort:

  00:23-00:33

  Q&A day is my family's favorite day here.

  Mark Ort:

  00:33-00:35

  They love Q&A day.

  Mark Ort:

  00:35-00:44

  And I had a conversation with my two boys over the weekend, Friday I think it was, with Jesse in particular.

  Mark Ort:

  00:44-00:50

  And one of the reasons why we love Q&A day, I love the answer that my son gave me.

  Mark Ort:

  00:52-00:56

  It's a fun day, but the Bible has answers.

  Mark Ort:

  00:56-00:58

  And you guys have questions.

  Mark Ort:

  00:58-01:06

  And oftentimes, some of those questions may not get answered just because of what we're going through.

  Mark Ort:

  01:07-01:11

  If we're going through the book of John, we might not be answering a question about something else.

  Mark Ort:

  01:11-01:22

  And so, kids, when they grow up, and they're kind of captive audience here, when they get old enough to do their own thing, they often leave the church.

  Mark Ort:

  01:23-01:27

  And they leave the church mainly because the church has not given them answers on things.

  Mark Ort:

  01:28-01:32

  And we know at Harvest that the Bible has answers.

  Mark Ort:

  01:32-01:42

  So that's why I think my family likes Q&A days, because we have answers, and we're ready to do that today.

  Pastor Jeff:

  01:42-01:43

  That's right. That's right, Mark. Thank you.

  Pastor Jeff:

  01:44-01:47

  And I didn't start the timer yet, by the way, so none of that counts.

  Pastor Jeff:

  01:48-01:58

  But we have questions you submitted, and you can actually text your question to this number, 412-324-3147.

  Pastor Jeff:

  01:59-02:05

  And when you text your question, just include "Q&A" or "question" in your text.

  Pastor Jeff:

  02:05-02:08

  And if we have time to get to it, we'll get to it.

  Pastor Jeff:

  02:08-02:10

  We might be passing the microphone around today.

  Pastor Jeff:

  02:12-02:17

  But as usual, we got some really good questions that came in ahead of time.

  Pastor Jeff:

  02:18-02:23

  So without further ado--

  Mark Ort:

  02:18-02:23

  OK, well, I think we're ready to start.

  Mark Ort:

  02:23-02:24

  What do you think?

  Pastor Jeff:

  02:24-02:25

  Timer's going, my friend.

  Mark Ort:

  02:25-02:31

  All right, as usual, the questions are really, really good.

  Mark Ort:

  02:32-02:37

  Jeff sends me the questions ahead of time so I can be a little bit prepared as well.

  Mark Ort:

  02:37-02:43

  And every time I look at the questions, I'm like, "Man, these are really good." So, Jeff, question number one.

  Mark Ort:

  02:44-02:48

  God said it was not good for man to be alone and created women.

  Mark Ort:

  02:49-02:51

  Why wouldn't God have the same for Himself?

  Pastor Jeff:

  02:51-02:53

  That is a really good question.

  Pastor Jeff:

  02:53-02:55

  You hear the Bible talks about that.

  Pastor Jeff:

  02:55-03:00

  We're going through the Gospel of John right now in a series called "Knowing Jesus." And we didn't get there yet.

  Pastor Jeff:

  03:01-03:05

  Actually, we've seen some comments from Jesus already about His relationship with the Father.

  Pastor Jeff:

  03:06-03:11

  But we're going to see it in much greater detail when we get to John 17.

  Pastor Jeff:

  03:11-03:18

  John 17.5, Jesus is praying to the Heavenly Father.

  Pastor Jeff:

  03:18-03:19

  Do we have that verse up?

  Pastor Jeff:

  03:21-03:23

  But this is part of Jesus' prayer to His heavenly Father.

  Pastor Jeff:

  03:23-03:32

  He says, "Now, Father, glorify Me in Your own presence with the glory that I had with You before the world existed." And then you jump down to verse 24.

  Pastor Jeff:

  03:33-03:37

  Again, Jesus continues talking about the church praying for us.

  Pastor Jeff:

  03:37-03:52

  "I desire that they also whom You have given Me may be with Me where I am to see My glory that You have given Me, because," look at this, "You loved Me before the foundation of the world." So, within the Trinity, there's a perfect relationship.

  Pastor Jeff:

  03:53-03:55

  And you're like, "Can you explain that?" I can't.

  Pastor Jeff:

  03:56-04:01

  Okay, God is one, but He's revealed Himself as three persons - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

  Pastor Jeff:

  04:02-04:05

  And I can't explain that any more than a fruitful "I can explain it" iPhone.

  Pastor Jeff:

  04:06-04:08

  I believe it, but I can't explain it.

  Pastor Jeff:

  04:09-04:12

  But Jesus very clearly showed that God was never alone.

  Pastor Jeff:

  04:12-04:14

  It wasn't like God was sitting in heaven, like, bored.

  Pastor Jeff:

  04:15-04:22

  like he had this obvious perfect relationship with the Son that Jesus was referring to here.

  Pastor Jeff:

  04:22-04:30

  And on top of that, you're like, "Well, why doesn't God have a bride?" Well, the truth is, Jesus does have a bride.

  Pastor Jeff:

  04:30-04:32

  And who is the bride, Mark?

  Mark Ort:

  04:33-04:37

  Yeah, you are. The church is the bride of Christ.

  Mark Ort:

  04:38-04:50

  And Ephesians 5 talks about that. We don't have to read all of this, But Ephesians 5, 25-32 talks about the relationship between husbands and wives, and that's the goal.

  Mark Ort:

  04:50-05:00

  In every marriage relationship, the husband is to love the wife the way Christ loved the church, and the wife is to love the husband the way the church loves Jesus Christ.

  Mark Ort:

  05:00-05:04

  And that whole dynamic is to be at play in the marriage relationship.

  Mark Ort:

  05:05-05:09

  But all of that to say, Jesus Christ has a bride for the church.

  Mark Ort:

  05:09-05:20

  And remember, when we went through Revelation, Revelation 19.9 talks about heaven, as we have it underlined here, the marriage supper of the Lamb.

  Mark Ort:

  05:20-05:21

  That's what heaven is like.

  Mark Ort:

  05:22-05:24

  It's like a big wedding party.

  Mark Ort:

  05:25-05:26

  And why?

  Mark Ort:

  05:26-05:36

  It's because the groom has prepared this place for his bride, and now his bride has come to be with him, and they have this big marriage reception.

  Mark Ort:

  05:36-05:39

  And we're going to be a part of that, if you're a believer in Jesus Christ.

  Mark Ort:

  05:39-05:42

  So, does God have a wife? Yes.

  Mark Ort:

  05:43-05:44

  Jesus Christ does have a bride.

  Mark Ort:

  05:45-05:50

  And if you're a follower, if you're a born-again believer in Christ, you are part of that bride, the church.

  Pastor Jeff:

  05:52-05:53

  Amen, Jeff. Thank you for that.

  Pastor Jeff:

  05:54-05:55

  Second question.

  Pastor Jeff:

  05:57-06:03

  What is a Christ-like response to people you don't know stopping you on the street and asking for money?

  Pastor Jeff:

  06:04-06:11

  What's the best way to show the love of Christ without enabling or hurting more than helping the situation.

  Pastor Jeff:

  06:11-06:15

  I think we've all had people approach us and ask us for money.

  Pastor Jeff:

  06:16-06:17

  So how do we respond to that?

  Mark Ort:

  06:17-06:20

  And that's the thing is, you know, you can't...

  Mark Ort:

  06:20-06:23

  I don't think you can judge rightly in this situation.

  Mark Ort:

  06:23-06:26

  You don't know exactly what's going on with that person, what's in their heart.

  Mark Ort:

  06:27-06:31

  And I don't think there is a right and wrong answer here.

  Mark Ort:

  06:31-06:38

  I believe that if you feel like the Spirit is calling you to do something, then I think absolutely you should do it.

  Mark Ort:

  06:39-06:40

  Right? And maybe if this is...

  Mark Ort:

  06:40-06:51

  It sounds like whoever wrote this, this is like part of their regular routine, like maybe something like, "Every day when I go to work, I'm approached by these people." I would encourage, maybe be prepared for that.

  Mark Ort:

  06:52-06:58

  Maybe pack an extra sandwich or pack an extra, you know, foil, pack a Pop-Tarts, right?

  Mark Ort:

  06:59-07:09

  And maybe you leave a little early and sit down and talk to the person, share the gospel with them, hear their story, whatever.

  Mark Ort:

  07:10-07:15

  It is hard because you don't just want to walk around with a wad of 20s and be like Oprah Winfrey, right?

  Mark Ort:

  07:15-07:21

  "Everybody gets a 20!" And is that going to fix anything? Probably not.

  Mark Ort:

  07:21-07:25

  But if you feel like God's calling you to do something, yeah, do something, but be proactive about it.

  Mark Ort:

  07:26-07:26

  Like, have a plan.

  Mark Ort:

  07:28-07:29

  I'm going to share real quick.

  Mark Ort:

  07:29-07:50

  One time I was walking into Walmart in Cranberry and there was a guy sitting by the row of carts outside with a cardboard sign that was like, "Please help." So I stopped and I said, "I'll go into McDonald's right here. What do you want? I'll bring you some McDonald's." And he's like, "Ah, how about a couple of cheeseburgers, whatever?" I'm like, "Great." So I went in, got him his food, and came back out.

  Mark Ort:

  07:50-07:53

  And I had some time, so I sat down with him.

  Mark Ort:

  07:54-07:56

  Just sat down by the carts with him, gave him his cheeseburgers.

  Mark Ort:

  07:57-08:05

  I said, "Well, I want to hear your story. Tell me, you know, what brought you here, why are you here?" and he was telling me, "He doesn't want a home." He goes, "This is how I choose to live.

  Mark Ort:

  08:05-08:12

  I just like to travel, I'm from Georgia, and I go all over the place." And I shared the gospel with him.

  Mark Ort:

  08:13-08:33

  But the funny thing was, as I was sitting there talking to this guy, no joke, there was probably a dozen, 15 people in that short amount of time, as I'm sitting there talking to this guy, walking by, looking at me going, "You poor guy," and then trying to give me money.

  Mark Ort:

  08:34-08:41

  Now, I'm trying to be polite because I didn't want to be like, "Hey, I'm not begging! I have a job!" I didn't want to be like that.

  Mark Ort:

  08:42-08:44

  But how do you respectfully say that?

  Mark Ort:

  08:44-09:00

  So I was just like, "Yeah, why don't you give it to him?" And they're like, "You need to eat too, young man." And I'm like, "Do I look homeless?" And look, but anyways, and so many people came by with bags of food.

  Mark Ort:

  09:01-09:09

  So I stayed a little longer and I left with like $170 that day and, you know, 15 meals from McDonald's.

  Mark Ort:

  09:09-09:09

  No, I didn't.

  Mark Ort:

  09:09-09:13

  I gave everything to that guy, but he made out like a bandit that day.

  Mark Ort:

  09:13-09:23

  But anyways, my point is we look at that guy and we're like, "Oh, poor homeless guy lost his job and we don't know the story." So I just sat down and talked to the guy and he's like, "I choose to live this way.

  Mark Ort:

  09:23-09:26

  "I don't want a home, I like to travel." Like, okay.

  Mark Ort:

  09:27-09:33

  So anyway, shared the gospel with them, and saw the generosity of Cranberry.

  Pastor Jeff:

  09:33-09:41

  I could probably tell a hundred stories about this type of thing, because I did some homeless ministry in the late '90s in Pittsburgh.

  Pastor Jeff:

  09:41-09:43

  And just two things real quick.

  Pastor Jeff:

  09:44-10:24

  One person who was asking for money, later on as I was talking, he told our group, he said, "If we ask you for money, give us money because we use the money for drugs for the most part he said what we really need is like health care we need food take us to a restaurant that that was his advice as a homeless person and I thought that was pretty good advice because that helped I think I think we're exercising wisdom when we do that kind of thing instead of just shoving a $20 bill in their face another Another man that I spoke to at -- it was actually the old stadium in Pittsburgh.

  Pastor Jeff:

  10:25-10:28

  He was a panhandler and that was his job.

  Pastor Jeff:

  10:28-10:32

  And he told me that he could make $200 a night at a pirate game.

  Pastor Jeff:

  10:33-10:45

  And I don't know where he lived or anything like that, but instead of the money thing, it might be better to ask if they need something to eat.

  Pastor Jeff:

  10:45-11:07

  I was in a restaurant just a few weeks ago in Butler, and I was waiting for my sandwich with my bandana over my face, and this lady came rushing in with -- she had two bandanas on, and she had a check in her hand, and she wanted the guy behind the counter to cash her check, and he refused.

  Pastor Jeff:

  11:07-11:09

  He said, "We don't cash checks here.

  Pastor Jeff:

  11:10-11:13

  We're not a bank." And she went into a flying rage.

  Pastor Jeff:

  11:13-11:18

  she went into a rage because she wanted money.

  Pastor Jeff:

  11:20-11:21

  And she said, "What am I gonna do to eat?

  Pastor Jeff:

  11:22-11:41

  I don't have," and she's screaming at this point, "I don't have any food to eat." And so before I even had a chance to respond to her on the side, the man behind the counter, and I don't know if he was a Christian or not, he did what we should maybe do, offer food.

  Pastor Jeff:

  11:42-11:44

  offer the food to the woman.

  Pastor Jeff:

  11:44-11:45

  And so he did that.

  Pastor Jeff:

  11:45-11:53

  He said, "Ma'am, you don't have to go flying off the handle." He said, "I'll give you some sandwiches if you need a sandwich for you, your family." And she refused.

  Pastor Jeff:

  11:54-11:57

  She didn't want the sandwich, she wanted to rip them off basically.

  Pastor Jeff:

  11:57-12:02

  So I say all that, just we need to be wise as serpents, right? - Yeah.

  Pastor Jeff:

  12:02-12:03

  That's what the scripture says.

  Pastor Jeff:

  12:03-12:04

  Right. - And Gentiles, doves.

  Pastor Jeff:

  12:05-12:10

  Offer help where we think the Spirit is leading us, but we need to be wise about those kinds of things.

  Mark Ort:

  12:10-12:11

  Yeah, absolutely, we do.

  Mark Ort:

  12:13-12:17

  Let's do one more on here and then maybe see if one got texted in or you want to pass the mic or whatever.

  Pastor Jeff:

  12:18-12:29

  Okay, the Bible states, "Absent from the body, present with the Lord." But also talks about the dead in Christ will rise at Christ's return and forever be with the Lord.

  Mark Ort:

  12:30-12:30

  Please

  Pastor Jeff:

  12:30-12:30

  explain.

  Mark Ort:

  12:31-12:35

  All right, 1 Thessalonians 4, verses 15 through 17.

  Mark Ort:

  12:38-13:32

  says, "For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord that we who are alive who are left until the coming of the Lord will not precede those who have fallen asleep." That was a euphemism for death. "The Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command with the voice of an archangel and with the sound of the trumpet of God and the dead in Christ will rise first then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air so we will always be with the Lord. So this is actually talking about our bodily resurrection which will happen at the rapture. So yeah when you die, if you died today, your soul would be with the Lord. But at the rapture, that's when the dead in Christ receive their resurrected bodies, right?

  Mark Ort:

  13:33-13:38

  And they're glorified bodies that Paul talks about in 1 Corinthians chapter 15.

  Mark Ort:

  13:39-14:14

  But Paul says that those who are alive in Christ on the earth at the time, they will, you know, obviously when he returns at the rapture, the dead in Christ will rise first, receive their glorified bodies, then those who are alive at his coming will receive theirs. So, yeah, that's all part of the rapture that Paul, again, also talks about. 1 Corinthians 15, verses 35 through 55, same thing. So, yeah, your soul will be with Christ now, but you will not get your glorified body until the rapture.

  Pastor Jeff:

  14:16-14:17

  Does that make sense?

  Pastor Jeff:

  14:18-14:18

  That makes sense.

  Mark Ort:

  14:18-14:20

  That's a hard question. We get that one a lot.

  14:22-14:22

  Mike,

  Pastor Jeff:

  14:22-14:25

  do we have any texted questions?

  Mark Ort:

  14:26-14:28

  This one's texted in. All right, Mark, go ahead.

  14:30-14:30

  "We

  Pastor Jeff:

  14:30-14:41

  are to believe that the Bible is the truth because it is God's Word, and I want to believe this, but the Bible has been translated and copied so many times by so many people.

  Pastor Jeff:

  14:41-14:45

  What if the truth has been lost in the process?"

  Mark Ort:

  14:45-14:49

  Right. That's a really good question, and one we get a lot.

  Mark Ort:

  14:49-14:51

  Here's the answer to that. It's an easy answer.

  Mark Ort:

  14:52-14:53

  Because there's a test for this.

  Mark Ort:

  14:54-14:58

  The test is how do you verify the accuracy of an ancient document, right?

  Mark Ort:

  14:58-15:04

  How do you know that what we have in our hands today is actually the same as was originally written?

  Mark Ort:

  15:05-15:06

  That's the question, right?

  Mark Ort:

  15:07-15:09

  And the answer is what's called the bibliographical test.

  Mark Ort:

  15:10-15:11

  And what's the bibliographical test?

  Mark Ort:

  15:11-15:22

  It's when you take as many ancient copies of a document as you can, and you compare them, one with another, to see if they're all saying the same thing, and then you can kind of sort of compare what we have today.

  Mark Ort:

  15:22-15:28

  Does it line up with the comparison that we have of all the ancient documents?

  Mark Ort:

  15:28-15:37

  Now, the number two ancient document that passes the bibliographical test is the Iliad by Homer.

  Mark Ort:

  15:38-15:38

  Not Homer Simpson.

  Mark Ort:

  15:39-15:41

  Homer the poet, all right?

  Mark Ort:

  15:41-15:46

  But there were 600 and some ancient copies of the Iliad.

  Mark Ort:

  15:46-15:57

  So if you were to go to a university professor, an English professor, and say, "Ancient... who teaches Homer? Is that literature? Ancient literature?" - Literature, English, philosophy.

  Mark Ort:

  15:58-16:07

  If you were to go to some guy in some school somewhere, and say, "Do we have a reliable copy of the Iliad?" He would laugh at you and say, "Well, of course we do, because we have 600 and some ancient copies.

  Mark Ort:

  16:08-16:11

  So we are absolutely sure that what we have today...

  Mark Ort:

  16:11-16:13

  Now, Iliad's number two.

  Mark Ort:

  16:14-16:18

  Do you know what the number one ancient document is that passes the bibliographical test?

  Mark Ort:

  16:18-16:18

  Do you know what it is?

  16:19-16:19

  What

  Pastor Jeff:

  16:19-16:19

  could it be? - The

  Mark Ort:

  16:19-16:20

  New Testament.

  Mark Ort:

  16:21-16:24

  Iliad had 600 and some. Do you know how many is the New Testament?

  Mark Ort:

  16:24-16:26

  It's like 24,000.

  Mark Ort:

  16:27-16:33

  Okay, so we have like 20-some thousand ancient copies of the New Testament that we can compare one with another.

  Mark Ort:

  16:33-16:35

  So the answer is, yeah.

  Mark Ort:

  16:35-16:45

  We are absolutely sure that the Bible we have in our hands is really, really almost exactly what was written.

  Mark Ort:

  16:45-16:58

  Yeah, there's going to be some nuances in words and meanings because languages change over time, but the overall meaning and message and words of the New Testament, we are really sure about that. Like, really sure.

  Mark Ort:

  16:59-17:07

  So it's not a question of, "Does it say what it originally said?" The question is, "Do you believe what it actually says?" So, yeah, that's a really good question and one that we get asked a lot.

  Pastor Jeff:

  17:07-17:10

  And we can study things like discoveries.

  Pastor Jeff:

  17:11-17:18

  I'm thinking in particular like the Dead Sea Scrolls that were discovered, what, in 1951 or 1950?

  Pastor Jeff:

  17:19-17:20

  '47? Yeah.

  Pastor Jeff:

  17:21-17:46

  So, you know, 70 years ago or whatever, they found these documents in caves that were rolled up in little scrolls in these containers, these glass containers, And they found different pieces of the Old Testament, and in particular, the biggest piece that they found was almost the entire book of Isaiah.

  Pastor Jeff:

  17:47-17:56

  And so they unraveled these things and they looked at them and they discovered, wow, it's almost word for word what we have right now.

  Pastor Jeff:

  17:56-18:05

  And so those kinds of archeological digs and discoveries confirm what we already believe to be true about the Scripture.

  Mark Ort:

  18:05-18:18

  And you read, before we had like printing presses and Xerox and copy machines, if you've ever done any studies on how people copied the ancient manuscripts, it's insane.

  Mark Ort:

  18:19-18:31

  Like I read stories literally where you would have these people that were like professional copyists, they would do a letter at a time, and they would copy a letter, and then they they would go take a bath.

  Mark Ort:

  18:32-18:38

  And then they would come back, because they were like ritually clean enough to do it again, and they would copy another letter.

  Mark Ort:

  18:39-18:41

  And then they'd go take another bath.

  Mark Ort:

  18:41-18:43

  And then they'd come and they'd copy another letter.

  Mark Ort:

  18:43-18:45

  How long do you think that would take, right?

  Mark Ort:

  18:46-18:47

  Like they were really clean people, right?

  Mark Ort:

  18:48-18:55

  So, but there's other stories like that where it was a painstaking process.

  Mark Ort:

  18:55-18:57

  It wasn't just eyeballing.

  Mark Ort:

  18:57-19:06

  Oh, and then the other thing is, If you, in the process, if you accidentally copied a letter down wrong, you had to take it and...

  Pastor Jeff:

  19:06-19:07

  You had to trash the whole book.

  Pastor Jeff:

  19:07-19:07

  You had to

  Mark Ort:

  19:07-19:11

  trash it, you had to actually bury it, because it was too holy to throw it away.

  Mark Ort:

  19:11-19:18

  So you had to like roll it up and you had to like ceremonially like bury the thing because you wrote a letter down wrong.

  Pastor Jeff:

  19:19-20:01

  And I don't want to belabor the point on this particular question, another element to this question that probably would take a whole sermon, but however many people there are in here, there may be six or seven or eight English translations. I mean, we have the New Living Translation, we have the New American Standard, we have the King James, the New King James, the NIV, and the list goes on. And part of this question may be that, like, how do we know which one of those is the most accurate, or which one should we be reading, which one's a better study Bible, which one's more literal, which one's more... and we can ask all those questions.

  Pastor Jeff:

  20:02-20:23

  But I think the principle is that there were principles of translation that godly scholars had used in developing these newer translations. And we could go through the history of all those and when they came out and why they came out and who worked on them.

  Pastor Jeff:

  20:24-20:27

  And I did look into that stuff in great detail some years ago.

  Pastor Jeff:

  20:28-20:36

  And there are reliable translations like the NIV, the scholarship that went into the NIV and the New American Standard.

  Pastor Jeff:

  20:37-20:46

  And like these guys were, and most recently probably the ESV, I think it's Justin Taylor was on the ESV translation board.

  Pastor Jeff:

  20:46-21:01

  And if you've read anything by Justin Taylor, a godly individual who wants to be accurate, and they would meet in these committees, and, you know, is this what the original language was actually trying to say?

  Pastor Jeff:

  21:02-21:04

  What did they mean when they were writing these things?

  Pastor Jeff:

  21:05-21:16

  And so we have to have faith in the Lord that he's going to preserve his word down through to the generations in a language that we can understand.

  Mark Ort:

  21:17-21:23

  Right on. And there are some translations that are better than others, but I'm not going to split hairs on that, because let's be honest.

  Mark Ort:

  21:24-21:30

  And the English translations that we have, can you read them and get the message of the gospel?

  Mark Ort:

  21:30-21:34

  Like, yeah, you can. Except maybe the message.

  Mark Ort:

  21:34-21:38

  I'm not sure about that one. But the other ones...

  Mark Ort:

  21:38-21:41

  I just really offended somebody here, but...

  Mark Ort:

  21:41-21:41

  I think,

  Pastor Jeff:

  21:41-21:46

  I mean, when you bring that up, Jeff, the message is a paraphrase.

  Pastor Jeff:

  21:46-21:47

  It's a paraphrase, right.

  Pastor Jeff:

  21:47-21:53

  So it is somebody's, and actually the message individually, and if you have the message, I'm not condemning you.

  Pastor Jeff:

  21:54-21:55

  No, we're not condemning you.

  Pastor Jeff:

  21:55-22:02

  But it's a paraphrase from somebody who, that's his take on what the Bible says.

  Pastor Jeff:

  22:03-22:06

  But there's a difference between a paraphrase and a translation.

  Pastor Jeff:

  22:06-22:13

  And we wanna make sure, I think, that we are getting a translated copy from the original language.

  Pastor Jeff:

  22:13-22:27

  And just to throw some out there, if you have an ESV, if you have an NIV, if you have a New American Standard, if you have a New King James, if you have a King James for that matter, I mean, those are translations from the original.

  Pastor Jeff:

  22:27-22:37

  And a paraphrase like the Living Bible, not the New Living Translation, but the Living Bible that I think was popular in the '70s is a paraphrase.

  Pastor Jeff:

  22:38-22:41

  And I would just recommend steering away from those.

  Pastor Jeff:

  22:41-22:45

  But if you have one and it helps you, I'm not going to say that you're...

  Pastor Jeff:

  22:45-22:46

  You can still

  Mark Ort:

  22:46-22:47

  get the message of the Gospel.

  Pastor Jeff:

  22:48-22:48

  Exactly.

  Mark Ort:

  22:48-22:49

  Through that.

  Mark Ort:

  22:49-22:50

  So we're not condemning you.

  Mark Ort:

  22:52-22:53

  But I'm not going to split hairs.

  Mark Ort:

  22:53-23:02

  I know some people are King James only, and some people are like, "NIV? You mean the newly inspired version?" Like, okay, whatever.

  Pastor Jeff:

  23:03-23:14

  And if we study the translation principles people used in all these versions, I think we have again a greater appreciation for each individual translation.

  Pastor Jeff:

  23:14-23:15

  I

  Mark Ort:

  23:15-23:17

  just don't have the energy to fight about that.

  Mark Ort:

  23:17-23:19

  I know some people do, but that's just not me.

  Mark Ort:

  23:19-23:24

  I'm like, read the Bible, be a Bible student, use different translations.

  Mark Ort:

  23:25-23:27

  But that's a fantastic question.

  Mark Ort:

  23:27-23:27

  It's

  Pastor Jeff:

  23:27-23:28

  a really good question.

  Mark Ort:

  23:29-23:29

  How about

  Pastor Jeff:

  23:29-23:30

  this one, Jeff?

  Pastor Jeff:

  23:30-23:36

  Christ tells us to do communion, but He also washed feet, and told us to do that too.

  Pastor Jeff:

  23:37-23:39

  Why do some churches wash feet and not others?

  Pastor Jeff:

  23:40-23:44

  By the way, the fact that we don't is not a problem with me.

  Pastor Jeff:

  23:45-23:47

  And I say, Amen.

  Mark Ort:

  23:50-23:56

  That disclaimer really helped me narrow down who I think asked the question.

  Mark Ort:

  23:57-23:58

  Oh, here's the thing.

  Mark Ort:

  23:59-24:05

  This comes from John 13, where Jesus washed the disciples' feet.

  Mark Ort:

  24:06-24:09

  In verse 15, Jesus gives the reason.

  Mark Ort:

  24:09-24:16

  He says, "For I have given you an example that you also should do, just as I have done to you." Why do some churches wash feet?

  Mark Ort:

  24:17-24:19

  Because they take this very literally.

  Mark Ort:

  24:20-24:21

  Jesus literally meant that.

  Mark Ort:

  24:22-24:29

  In Jesus' culture, foot washing was the job of the lowest slave.

  Mark Ort:

  24:30-24:37

  Why? Well, living in the Middle East in the first century, wearing sandals, people's feet would get dirty.

  Mark Ort:

  24:39-24:40

  Just by walking around everywhere.

  Mark Ort:

  24:40-24:46

  They weren't driving in their cars, they were walking in the dirt all the time.

  Mark Ort:

  24:46-24:49

  So that was a very common problem. People had dirty feet.

  Mark Ort:

  24:49-24:55

  and the lowest slave in the house, it was their job to clean the feet of guests that came to the house.

  Mark Ort:

  24:56-25:04

  So understanding that as the backdrop, that gives you the significance of John chapter 13, that Jesus would do the job of the lowest slave.

  Mark Ort:

  25:04-25:16

  That Jesus wasn't like, "Hey, son of God, that's a little beneath me." Like when they came, Jesus said, "I will serve in the most degrading way possible.

  Mark Ort:

  25:17-25:32

  I will do the job of the lowest of the low." And I think that's what Jesus meant when He said, "Now I've left you an example." I don't think it's about washing feet as much as it's about being willing to take on the lowest job.

  Mark Ort:

  25:32-25:43

  So in our culture, you might say, "Hey, Pastor Jeff, I want to help in the church." And what if I said to you, "Hey, I want you to take the garbage out after service." You're like, "Well, you don't know who I am, Jeff.

  Mark Ort:

  25:43-25:57

  I'm the CFO of a major company and I don't take the garbage out." Like, "Oh, you know the son of God washed feet. Did you know that?" You're like, "Well, how can I help?" "Well, you know, we need somebody to help clean the bathrooms." "Oh, you don't understand, Pastor Jeff.

  Mark Ort:

  25:57-26:10

  I am a medical doctor and I don't clean bathrooms." I'm like, "Well, God washed feet, so you're too good. Why?" I think that's the whole meaning behind this.

  Mark Ort:

  26:10-26:18

  As Christians, we see ourselves as being willing to humble ourselves to do any job.

  26:19-26:20

  Yeah,

  Pastor Jeff:

  26:20-26:21

  that's a really good question.

  Pastor Jeff:

  26:21-26:28

  I was at a wedding once where the bride and the groom washed each other's feet.

  Pastor Jeff:

  26:29-26:40

  And I thought that was, at first, when I saw them getting ready to do it, I'm thinking to myself, this is really weird, because I grew up in a church that did foot washings like twice a year.

  Pastor Jeff:

  26:41-26:43

  And even as a 10 year old, I thought it was kind of weird.

  Pastor Jeff:

  26:45-26:52

  But as I sat and watched the thing happen at the wedding, I thought about what you're saying here, Jeff.

  Pastor Jeff:

  26:53-27:03

  The bride and the groom were showing in that act their love and mutual respect for one another and submission to one another.

  Mark Ort:

  27:04-27:04

  And it was

  Pastor Jeff:

  27:04-27:05

  a beautiful

  Mark Ort:

  27:05-27:05

  picture.

  Mark Ort:

  27:05-27:07

  And as a symbolic act, yeah, absolutely.

  Mark Ort:

  27:07-27:08

  I don't have a problem with it.

  Mark Ort:

  27:08-27:09

  Yeah, it was a beautiful

  Pastor Jeff:

  27:09-27:12

  picture, just like baptism is a beautiful picture.

  Pastor Jeff:

  27:14-27:22

  But it was, like you said, Jeff, it was Jesus's way of saying, do these kinds of things.

  Pastor Jeff:

  27:22-27:28

  You don't have to actually go out and wash somebody's feet, but if they ask you to take the garbage out, you might want to consider.

  Pastor Jeff:

  27:28-27:28

  But it might

  Mark Ort:

  27:28-27:29

  include that.

  Mark Ort:

  27:29-27:30

  I mean, you know what I mean?

  Mark Ort:

  27:31-27:44

  I think there's a broader principle here, Because we can make it just about foot washing, and then we're like, "Hey, I need you to help clean the bathrooms or take the garbage out." Like, "Well, Jesus didn't do that." Well, I think there's a principle there.

  Pastor Jeff:

  27:46-27:46

  Thanks, Jeff.

  Pastor Jeff:

  27:47-27:49

  All right, any questions out here?

  Pastor Jeff:

  27:50-27:50

  Yes.

  Mark Ort:

  27:52-27:56

  Could you talk about eschatology, what the church's position is on end times?

  Mark Ort:

  27:57-27:59

  Is scripture descriptive of what's going to happen?

  Mark Ort:

  27:59-28:02

  What's already been fulfilled, just kind of generally like that?

  Mark Ort:

  28:04-28:05

  Yeah, absolutely.

  Mark Ort:

  28:05-28:08

  We went through the book of Revelation last year.

  Mark Ort:

  28:09-28:10

  And that's the long version of the answer.

  Mark Ort:

  28:10-28:24

  The short version is I believe that the events that are laid out in Revelation and are discussed like in Matthew 24, Mark 13, I believe those are going to happen.

  Mark Ort:

  28:24-28:27

  I believe there's a future seven-year tribulation that's coming.

  Mark Ort:

  28:29-28:34

  Preceding that tribulation, I believe there's a rapture when God removes His people from the earth.

  Mark Ort:

  28:34-28:38

  And I believe that with the removal of the church and the earth, you're going to see the seven years of hell on earth.

  Mark Ort:

  28:38-28:40

  Those are the seven years of tribulation.

  Mark Ort:

  28:40-28:46

  Revelation, and Christ returns to establish His thousand-year kingdom on the earth.

  Mark Ort:

  28:47-28:51

  And then after the thousand-year kingdom is the great white throne judgment.

  Mark Ort:

  28:51-28:55

  So I believe that the events of Revelation point to a seven-year period.

  Mark Ort:

  28:56-28:59

  And then Daniel, also Daniel 9, talks about this.

  Mark Ort:

  28:59-29:05

  But I believe these are future events that are going to happen literally as they're laid out in the book of Revelation.

  29:07-29:07

  Yeah,

  Pastor Jeff:

  29:07-29:12

  I think you even addressed this in your Revelation sermons, and I remember this.

  Pastor Jeff:

  29:13-29:19

  I think it's, "We see the church in Revelation 1, 2, 3, and 4."

  Mark Ort:

  29:19-29:24

  Well, you see, Revelation 2 and 3 is the church, the church, the church.

  Mark Ort:

  29:24-29:27

  The seven churches, Revelation 4 and 5, you see worship in heaven.

  Mark Ort:

  29:28-29:30

  And then there's no mention at all of the church throughout the entire tribulation.

  Pastor Jeff:

  29:31-29:32

  That's

  Mark Ort:

  29:32-29:33

  one reason I believe the church is raptured out.

  Pastor Jeff:

  29:34-29:42

  Yeah, it's a really good point, because if the church was in that period, you would think that there would be something said to them.

  Pastor Jeff:

  29:42-29:43

  There would be a mention.

  Pastor Jeff:

  29:43-29:45

  An encouragement, a warning, something.

  Pastor Jeff:

  29:45-29:46

  Nations, unbelievers,

  Mark Ort:

  29:46-29:55

  Israel, all of them are mentioned, but you don't see not one mention, not a word, not a passing comment, nothing about the church during that time.

  Mark Ort:

  29:55-30:05

  And some people say, "Well, I don't believe the church is raptured out because why would God's people be exempt from suffering?" And I would say, "Well, look at God's track record.

  Mark Ort:

  30:05-30:06

  Look at the Bible.

  Mark Ort:

  30:07-30:13

  Every time God brings judgment on unbelievers, He removes His people every time." Remember Noah's flood? What happened?

  Mark Ort:

  30:13-30:15

  Judgment, God removed His people.

  Mark Ort:

  30:15-30:17

  Remember Sodom and Gomorrah? What happened?

  Mark Ort:

  30:17-30:19

  Judgment, God removed His people.

  Mark Ort:

  30:19-30:21

  Look at Israel in the wonders of the wilderness.

  Mark Ort:

  30:21-30:24

  When people would rebel against God, what did God tell Moses?

  Mark Ort:

  30:25-30:30

  "Hey, get your people out of there, because I'm about to torch some people." He'd remove his people.

  Mark Ort:

  30:30-30:36

  So it's not unreasonable to think when the end times come, God's bringing judgment on the earth, what's the first thing he does?

  Mark Ort:

  30:36-30:37

  Remove his people.

  Mark Ort:

  30:38-30:45

  So I believe the church is not going to be here during the events of the seven-year tribulation.

  Pastor Jeff:

  30:46-30:48

  Thank you. Is there another question out here?

  Pastor Jeff:

  30:49-30:49

  Before we move on?

  Pastor Jeff:

  30:51-30:58

  Okay, "Could you please explain to me the meaning of Psalm 108.7-9?"

  Mark Ort:

  30:58-31:02

  Yeah, this is a really good question. Let's look at the verses here, and then I'm going to do a little explanation.

  Mark Ort:

  31:03-31:03

  Okay.

  Mark Ort:

  31:05-31:18

  "God has promised in His holiness, 'With exultation I will divide up Shechem and portion out the valley of Sukkoth, Gilead is mine. Manasseh is mine. Ephraim is my helmet.

  Mark Ort:

  31:19-31:23

  Judah is my scepter. Moab is my washbasin.

  Mark Ort:

  31:24-31:38

  Upon Edom I cast my shoe. Over Philistia I shout in triumph." Now interestingly, Psalm 108 is a combination of Psalm 57 and Psalm 60.

  Mark Ort:

  31:39-31:43

  The first five verses are from Psalm 57, verses 7-11.

  Mark Ort:

  31:44-31:50

  verses 6-13 and Psalm 108, or from Psalm 60, verses 5-12.

  Mark Ort:

  31:51-31:53

  Here's the question. What's going on here, Ani?

  Mark Ort:

  31:55-31:56

  Explain to me what's happening.

  Mark Ort:

  31:57-32:01

  Well, alright. Verses 7 and 8, here's what's happening.

  Mark Ort:

  32:01-32:14

  It's God's very poetic way of saying, "Israel belongs to me." Now understand, Israel has always been the focal point of attacks and enemies and invasions, and always, even until today, right?

  Mark Ort:

  32:14-32:16

  So Israel has always been the focal point.

  Mark Ort:

  32:16-32:22

  This is God's way of saying, "Israel's mine." "She's mine. She belongs to me." And it doesn't matter what all these nations are doing.

  Mark Ort:

  32:23-32:27

  "Israel belongs to me," is what God is saying.

  Mark Ort:

  32:27-32:31

  And verse 9 refers to the enemies of Israel.

  Mark Ort:

  32:31-32:34

  That's Moab, that's Edom, that's Philistia.

  Mark Ort:

  32:34-32:35

  Those are enemies.

  Mark Ort:

  32:35-32:38

  And God is using poetic language for the enemies.

  Mark Ort:

  32:40-32:46

  He says, "First of all, Moab is my wash basin." That's a picture of humility. Moab thinks they're big and tough.

  Mark Ort:

  32:47-33:01

  God's like, "I brush my teeth and spit in Moab. That's how tough Moab is." And He says, "Eat them before I cast my shoe." It's a picture of walking into somebody's house and taking your shoes off, and the servant's there.

  Mark Ort:

  33:01-33:07

  It's like, "Hey, servant, take care of these shoes for me." God's like, "The mighty Edom, that's what Edom is to me.

  Mark Ort:

  33:07-33:13

  Hey, hey, take care of my shoes, boy." And Philistia, "I shout in triumph." I mean, that's pretty self-explanatory.

  Mark Ort:

  33:14-33:18

  Philistia, the Philistines, you know, long history of oppression on Israel.

  Mark Ort:

  33:18-33:24

  God's like, "They're going to know who's really in charge here." So that's what's happening there.

  Mark Ort:

  33:24-33:31

  It's two things, God claiming ownership of Israel and claiming ultimate triumph and humility over the enemies of Israel.

  Mark Ort:

  33:33-33:35

  Somebody's been studying their Psalms.

  Mark Ort:

  33:36-33:37

  That's a really good question.

  33:38-33:38

  I

  Pastor Jeff:

  33:38-33:39

  like that question.

  Pastor Jeff:

  33:39-33:46

  "To my understanding, the devil was cast from heaven due to the sin of pride. Is that correct?

  Pastor Jeff:

  33:46-33:52

  And if so, I don't understand that, as I didn't think sin was possible in heaven."

  33:52-33:53

  Well,

  Mark Ort:

  33:53-34:00

  it seems that the angels had one choice, to remain faithful to God or to go with the devil.

  Mark Ort:

  34:00-34:05

  The Bible says a third went with the devil We call those angels demons.

  Mark Ort:

  34:05-34:08

  We see this in Revelation 12.

  Mark Ort:

  34:09-34:13

  Verse 4, talking about the devil as a dragon.

  Mark Ort:

  34:13-34:27

  "His tail swept down a third of the stars of heaven and cast them to the earth." So, our understanding, putting the Scriptures together, is a third of the angels rebelled with Satan.

  Mark Ort:

  34:27-34:29

  And we call those angels demons today.

  Mark Ort:

  34:30-34:32

  And their day of judgment is coming.

  Mark Ort:

  34:32-34:40

  Actually, Jesus said in Matthew 25, 41, that the lake of fire was prepared for the devil and his angels.

  Mark Ort:

  34:41-34:43

  Interesting way of phrasing that.

  Mark Ort:

  34:44-34:53

  But ultimately, everyone ends up in the lake of fire with the devil and angels who don't receive the gift of salvation that Christ so generously offers.

  Mark Ort:

  34:55-34:56

  Do we have any more that were texted

  Pastor Jeff:

  34:56-34:57

  in?

  Pastor Jeff:

  34:57-34:58

  Yeah, I was just going to ask Mike.

  Pastor Jeff:

  35:00-35:02

  All right, let me read that to you, Jeff.

  Pastor Jeff:

  35:02-35:12

  "How does Harvest reconcile the thought that some parts of Scripture are cultural, like head coverings, but others, like the role of women in the church, are not?"

  35:12-35:12

  That's

  Mark Ort:

  35:12-35:13

  a really good question.

  Mark Ort:

  35:13-35:14

  It's the context of the passage.

  Mark Ort:

  35:16-35:19

  Like, for example, it's context of the passage.

  Mark Ort:

  35:20-35:23

  Let's talk about the role of women in the church, because we get this one a lot.

  Mark Ort:

  35:26-35:27

  1 Timothy 2.

  Mark Ort:

  35:29-35:31

  in verses 11 through 15.

  Mark Ort:

  35:33-35:35

  But the context determines that, right?

  Mark Ort:

  35:36-35:40

  Because there are some things that are obviously, in the context of the passage, they're cultural.

  Mark Ort:

  35:41-35:48

  Like, okay, he's talking to a particular people in a particular city at a particular time about a particular thing.

  Mark Ort:

  35:48-35:54

  But some things are not cultural in nature, they are theological in nature.

  Mark Ort:

  35:54-35:57

  And that's why I want to bring this to your attention.

  Mark Ort:

  35:59-36:06

  1 Timothy 2, verse 11, Paul says, "Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness." He's talking about in the context of church.

  Mark Ort:

  36:07-36:10

  But look at what he says in verse 12.

  Mark Ort:

  36:11-36:15

  This is where it gets dicey for some people.

  Mark Ort:

  36:16-36:22

  He says, "I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man.

  Mark Ort:

  36:24-36:29

  Rather, she is to remain quiet." And people right there say, "Yeah, that was a cultural issue right there.

  Mark Ort:

  36:29-36:34

  That was cultural. The reason he said that was cultural." Well, look at the next verse.

  Mark Ort:

  36:35-36:39

  He says, "For Adam was formed first, then Eve.

  Mark Ort:

  36:40-36:44

  And Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.

  Mark Ort:

  36:45-36:54

  Yet she will be saved through childbearing, if they continue in faith and love and holiness with self-control." So the question is, Paul's reasoning.

  Mark Ort:

  36:55-37:00

  Is his reasoning cultural, or is his reasoning theological?

  Mark Ort:

  37:02-37:07

  Just take out your biases and look at the text straightforwardly.

  Mark Ort:

  37:07-37:17

  He didn't say, "Because Timothy and Ephesus, the culture doesn't permit women to..." He doesn't go into anything cultural.

  Mark Ort:

  37:18-37:22

  He goes straight into - this is a theological thing, it goes all the way back to creation.

  Mark Ort:

  37:24-37:31

  You get a look at the context of the passage, and that determines, are we talking about a theological issue, or a cultural issue?

  Mark Ort:

  37:32-37:34

  Are there principles that are to be carried on, like the foot-washing thing?

  Mark Ort:

  37:35-37:38

  Or is it something that obviously pertains to just the people in that setting?

  Pastor Jeff:

  37:40-37:47

  Just the head covering in specific, and maybe you already alluded to this, but why don't we wear head coverings here?

  Mark Ort:

  37:48-37:50

  I think that was more of a cultural thing.

  37:53-37:53

  What

  Pastor Jeff:

  37:53-37:53

  do you think?

  Pastor Jeff:

  37:54-37:58

  I thought, based on what I read, I think it's cultural.

  Mark Ort:

  38:00-38:00

  Right.

  Mark Ort:

  38:01-38:04

  So, obviously I didn't study that one as much as the first one.

  Mark Ort:

  38:05-38:07

  But hey, that's what happens when you get these ad hoc questions.

  Mark Ort:

  38:10-38:12

  I'm just going to do that from now on.

  Mark Ort:

  38:13-38:16

  If I don't know the answer, I'm just going to say, It was cultural.

  Mark Ort:

  38:19-38:21

  No, I'm kidding aside, I really think that was cultural.

  Mark Ort:

  38:22-38:25

  Have I done in-depth studies on head coverings? No.

  Mark Ort:

  38:25-38:27

  Not any time in the last 15 years, probably.

  Pastor Jeff:

  38:29-38:44

  Well, I don't know if this probably doesn't add anything to the conversation at all, but we belonged to a church a long time ago where they started going that route, where somebody saw that, hey, women are wearing head coverings in the scriptures, so we need to do that.

  Pastor Jeff:

  38:45-38:48

  And so there was a contingent of people that started wearing head coverings.

  Pastor Jeff:

  38:48-38:58

  And we would talk to them and ask them why, and there wasn't a real good explanation other than the fact that they saw some things happen in the Bible with head coverings.

  Pastor Jeff:

  39:00-39:03

  That's not something that we participated in.

  39:04-39:04

  What

  Mark Ort:

  39:04-39:05

  is that, in 1 Corinthians?

  Mark Ort:

  39:06-39:06

  Is that right?

  Mark Ort:

  39:07-39:08

  I believe

  Pastor Jeff:

  39:08-39:08

  it is.

  Mark Ort:

  39:08-39:11

  It has been a long time since I studied that, so yeah.

  Mark Ort:

  39:12-39:13

  I'm not as up to speed on that.

  Mark Ort:

  39:14-39:17

  But I know the women's authority in church thing is theological.

  Mark Ort:

  39:18-39:18

  I know that.

  39:21-39:21

  All

  Pastor Jeff:

  39:21-39:23

  right, next question on our sheet here.

  Pastor Jeff:

  39:24-39:30

  This is the shortest Q &A question that I've ever seen, and I love it because it's only three words.

  Pastor Jeff:

  39:31-39:33

  Melchizedek, please explain.

  Pastor Jeff:

  39:36-39:37

  If only the answer were that

  Mark Ort:

  39:37-39:38

  short.

  Mark Ort:

  39:39-39:39

  All right.

  Mark Ort:

  39:42-39:46

  Melchizedek. I'm going to look at my notes here because we're running low on time.

  Mark Ort:

  39:47-39:50

  Oh, we are under a minute. Let me see if I can do it in under a minute. Ready?

  Mark Ort:

  39:51-39:53

  Hebrews 7 talks about Melchizedek.

  Mark Ort:

  39:53-39:57

  Jesus the Messiah was promised to be a part of Melchizedek's order, not in the order of the Levites.

  Mark Ort:

  39:57-40:01

  That comes from Psalm 110, verse 4. A very key verse in the Old Testament.

  Mark Ort:

  40:02-40:40

  "The Lord has sworn he will not change his mind. You are a priest forever in the order of Melchizedek." Melchizedek. Genesis 14, he was the king of Salem. He blessed Abraham and Abraham gave Melchizedek a tenth of everything. He paid him a tithe. Melchizedek was a priest. This is a significance. In the Old Testament law, you couldn't be both priest and king, but the Messiah was prophesied to be both priest and king, so he would be in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of the Levites. Melchizedek predates the law. It was even greater than Abraham, therefore he was greater than the Levites, Abraham's eventual offspring, proved by the fact that Abraham gave Melchizedek the tithe.

  Mark Ort:

  40:41-40:46

  I didn't do it. I'm out of time. I'm sorry.

  40:47-40:48

  You

  Pastor Jeff:

  40:48-40:48

  are loved.

  Mark Ort:

  40:48-40:49

  You are loved.

  Mark Ort:

  40:53-41:02

  Okay, the point of Melchizedek, Jesus came from his line of priests, not the Levitical line of priests.

  Mark Ort:

  41:03-41:06

  And that's absolutely significant.

  Mark Ort:

  41:07-41:15

  Because the whole point of Hebrews is God has fulfilled and finished everything from Old Testament law in the person of Jesus Christ.

  Mark Ort:

  41:16-41:19

  And his point is Jesus wasn't even a Levitical priest.

  Mark Ort:

  41:19-41:23

  To keep that going, Jesus was a priest from the line of Melchizedek.

  Mark Ort:

  41:23-41:27

  He was a picture, or a type of Jesus in five ways.

  Mark Ort:

  41:27-41:37

  His name, Melchizedek, means "my King is righteousness." His title, he was the king of Salem, like Jerusalem, or Shalom, that means peace.

  Mark Ort:

  41:37-41:38

  He was the king of peace.

  Mark Ort:

  41:39-41:45

  He was both king and priest, which under the Old Testament law you were not allowed to have both offices.

  Mark Ort:

  41:46-41:48

  Melchizedek did, Jesus does.

  Mark Ort:

  41:49-41:56

  He was not a Levitical priest, again, because the Mosaic law was fulfilled, now obsolete according to Hebrews.

  Mark Ort:

  41:56-41:58

  And he had no beginning or end.

  Mark Ort:

  41:58-42:06

  Melchizedek wasn't timeless, he just means "on the page." He shows up suddenly, and he vanishes suddenly from Scripture.

  Mark Ort:

  42:06-42:11

  There's no genealogy, we don't know who Melchizedek's parents were, but they were great at picking names.

  Mark Ort:

  42:11-42:16

  And it says he resembled Jesus as a priest forever.

  Mark Ort:

  42:17-42:20

  So, using just sort of the...

  Mark Ort:

  42:20-42:24

  He's like, yeah, Genesis 14, he kind of comes from nowhere, and he sort of vanishes.

  Mark Ort:

  42:25-42:43

  He's like, "That's kind of like Jesus, he's timeless." But there's a lot of other ways, like Jesus, and that's what, under Holy Spirit inspiration, prompted the psalmist to say about the Messiah, "The Lord has sworn and will not change his mind." The Father is saying this about the Son.

  Mark Ort:

  42:43-42:58

  "You are a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek." That is a really good question, and it would take us several weeks to really plumb the depths of everything about Melchizedek.

  Pastor Jeff:

  42:59-43:03

  >> Well, listen, we had a couple other questions that we're not going to get to.

  Pastor Jeff:

  43:03-43:06

  And you're probably going to write some things about that on the blog, right?

  Pastor Jeff:

  43:06-43:06

  >> Yeah, I'll put

  Mark Ort:

  43:06-43:07

  them on the blog, yeah.

  Mark Ort:

  43:07-43:09

  But there was one other question you wanted to bring up.

  Mark Ort:

  43:09-43:10

  >> Yeah, I had another

  Pastor Jeff:

  43:10-43:11

  question that came through.

  Pastor Jeff:

  43:11-43:20

  It was actually the first question that Jeff had texted me whenever Q&A day was mentioned in planning.

  Pastor Jeff:

  43:21-43:26

  The question, and I don't have it in front of me, but you'll get the gist of it.

  Pastor Jeff:

  43:27-43:30

  What about white privilege and racism?

  Pastor Jeff:

  43:30-43:32

  And what about diversity in our church?

  Pastor Jeff:

  43:33-43:39

  And so I started to research where the term came from.

  Pastor Jeff:

  43:40-43:48

  Obviously, the race issue is all over our televisions and our news feeds and things like that in recent days.

  Pastor Jeff:

  43:48-43:57

  and that was a question that came in, like how can our church address, what do we do as a church to address these things?

  Pastor Jeff:

  43:57-44:10

  How are we supposed to respond as a body and maybe as individuals to these really important and serious questions that are in our country today?

  Pastor Jeff:

  44:11-44:15

  And we are going to attempt to answer that next week.

  Pastor Jeff:

  44:15-44:17

  Yes. - In part two of Q&A.

  Mark Ort:

  44:18-44:20

  We are taking a whole session on this, and here's why.

  Mark Ort:

  44:21-44:34

  We got that question submitted, and I know the men in our small group, we share a little Google Hangout box, but it generated a lot of interesting discussion, even among us, like about diversity in the church and response to racism.

  Mark Ort:

  44:34-44:40

  And I was hearing of other conversations happening, like, yeah, I have some questions about that too.

  Mark Ort:

  44:40-44:50

  So we thought instead of, you reached out to Tiffany because she's Libby's dance instructor, And we're asking her some questions about this.

  Mark Ort:

  44:50-44:54

  As a black woman and as a Christian, what's your perspective on this?

  Mark Ort:

  44:54-44:59

  You know, raised by white parents, I mean, she has a whole, you know, wild story.

  Mark Ort:

  45:00-45:04

  And Mark, you had shared with me some of the things that she had shared with you.

  Mark Ort:

  45:04-45:07

  I called and talked to her and got to hear from her.

  Mark Ort:

  45:07-45:17

  And we thought, after talking to the elders of the church, we thought it was just too much good communication to try to squeeze it in on Q&A day.

  Pastor Jeff:

  45:18-45:23

  And for us to relay to you what she told us, you're gonna hear it secondhand from us.

  Pastor Jeff:

  45:23-45:30

  So for you to hear directly from her, I think is really gonna be a gripping and compelling session next week.

  Mark Ort:

  45:31-45:42

  Right, and a lot of people have race-related questions and it's gonna be better coming from her instead of like, here's two middle-aged white guys schooling us about racism.

  Mark Ort:

  45:44-45:46

  It's going to be much better coming from her.

  Mark Ort:

  45:47-45:55

  She has such a powerful perspective, and very articulate, and Christ-centered gospel focused.

  Mark Ort:

  45:55-46:08

  Not just jumping on some bandwagon of hysteria, but her perspective as a black woman is just very Christ-centered.

  Mark Ort:

  46:08-46:17

  She's like, "Here's what the Bible says, therefore here's how the church should respond." It's very refreshing to hear that in our day of just screaming and chaos.

  Pastor Jeff:

  46:18-46:34

  That was our goal in inviting her, was to hear solutions and perspectives from somebody who is going to be reaching into the Word of God rather than the hysteria that we see going on.

  Pastor Jeff:

  46:35-46:41

  And that's our goal, as always, with any of these questions, is we want to be biblical about it.

  Pastor Jeff:

  46:42-46:48

  We said at the beginning, the Bible has the answers to our questions, including the tough ones about racism.

  Mark Ort:

  46:48-46:50

  And we're going to be opening the floor.

  Mark Ort:

  46:50-47:01

  If you want to ask her a question or text a question, she is willing to take some Q&A time just ad hoc like this to maybe ask her about the head coverings.

  Pastor Jeff:

  47:03-47:03

  Sounds good.

  Mark Ort:

  47:04-47:07

  All right, and any of these other questions, I wasn't sure what was going on.

  Mark Ort:

  47:07-47:08

  But that's why we have Mark.

  Mark Ort:

  47:09-47:11

  Mark, why don't you pray for us and thank you everyone for the questions.

  Mark Ort:

  47:14-47:17

  And you've had conversations with people about race and things.

  Mark Ort:

  47:17-47:18

  Invite them next week, right?

  Mark Ort:

  47:19-47:20

  And we'll set up more chairs if we need to.

  Pastor Jeff:

  47:21-47:23

  Yeah, absolutely, invite them, like seriously.

  Mark Ort:

  47:25-47:31

  Excellent, why don't you pray for us, Mark, and the worship team will come up and we'll close our time with a word of worship.

  Mark Ort:

  47:31-47:32

  All right,

  Pastor Jeff:

  47:32-47:32

  bow your heads, please.

  Pastor Jeff:

  47:33-47:37

  Thank you, Lord, for just a beautiful day, a beautiful Sunday morning.

  Pastor Jeff:

  47:38-47:41

  You've been abundantly kind to us.

  Pastor Jeff:

  47:41-47:50

  You've been good to us, not just with the weather and how you provide for us and things like that, but you've been good in every other way.

  Pastor Jeff:

  47:52-48:05

  You've planted within us your word and you've given us friends that care about us and you've given us a certain amount of stability and we thank you for our health.

  Pastor Jeff:

  48:05-48:11

  And we are grateful for all of these things, our homes and our food.

  Pastor Jeff:

  48:11-48:15

  And Lord, thank you for all of that.

  Pastor Jeff:

  48:17-48:26

  But we thank you most of all for the blood of Jesus that cleanses us from all of our unrighteousness, that takes away the guilt and the stain of our sin.

  Pastor Jeff:

  48:27-48:33

  We stand here today, Lord, as those who know you, as people who stand in grace.

  Pastor Jeff:

  48:33-48:38

  And we are so grateful for that this morning and we never wanna take that for granted.

  Pastor Jeff:

  48:40-48:57

  We thank you that we are back in church and worshiping with one another and hearing from your word together and seeing each other's smiles and sharing each other's victories and hurts and things like that in this corporate setting.

  Pastor Jeff:

  48:57-49:03

  And Lord, I thank you for a group of like-minded believers who love one another.

  Pastor Jeff:

  49:04-49:07

  And so Lord, we give you all the glory this morning.

  Pastor Jeff:

  49:08-49:24

  I thank you for Q&A day where we can just have a little bit of fun, where we can dig into your word and get answers to the things that puzzle us or things that confuse us.

  Pastor Jeff:

  49:24-49:31

  And Lord, I pray that this morning was a fruitful time for those in attendance and listening this morning.

  Pastor Jeff:

  49:33-49:35

  Again, Lord, we thank you for your goodness to us.

  Pastor Jeff:

  49:36-49:38

  And we pray these things in Jesus' name, amen.

Small Group Questions (Whole Group):

Review the questions submitted above. Discuss any of these that stuck out to you, or that maybe your group finds particularly interesting.

Breakout Questions:
Pray for one another!